A Plausible Solution to AMHA's problems

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horses mouth

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I have been watching the posts about AMHA and the measuring concerns since I asked for the lil beginnings members help with the Classic Pleasure Driving division proposal (thank you all for your input).

This post is not meant to say anyone’s ideas are not good ones, in fact I feel that together we as members of AMHA should communicate more. But I was very put out by a comment made by our President (whether it was said as a personal opinion or not) that was a reply to your CARE groups questions to him. This is a direct quote:

As President Want stated in his June 11, 2008, answers to one of our questions. “Integrity? That is what started this stuff. If the darn trainers and breeders had integrity, the Association would not need to change measuring or its protest rules.”

This along with the increasing number of concerns about AMHA’s state of affairs prompted me to send an email to a few concerned breeders and trainers and included a rough outline for a “Grievance Committee”, excerpts below:

It is time to try to do the right thing.

We need to form a Grievance Committee.

This committee needs to be a “standing” committee of around a dozen members (To decrease the likely hood of corruption/coercion) and like Show Rules and LOC it should be elected by the members, not appointed by the BOD. It also should have continuity and its members should run longer than one year with it’s own rules as to how long and who they answer to. Something akin to LO-041 (LOC COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP). This committee needs to be empowered to address all Violations (General Rules 130 through 136) and Fraudulent Practices (General Rules 137 through 143A). This committee should also take over Disciplinary Procedures in our rulebook, which the Executive Committee presently is empowered to enforce. Many times the very persons (five members) that are on the EC are in places of power on our other committees and are able to “influence” decisions. These people also have an interest in breeding and showing. Five is just too small a number and exerts way too much control. The Grievance Committee should also be the AMHA "Impaneling Board” (General Rule 160 through 165A). Penalties (General Rules 170 through 176) should then be recommended to the Board of Directors to be voted on and imposed.

Some rules to be included:

In the event of a grievance being brought against any member of the Grievance Committee the BOD is responsible for electing someone to fulfill his or her position for that particular case.

The grieved/accused is required to acknowledge and respond in writing to any grievance against them.

If the grieved/accused does not respond in writing within 30 days of the certified postal date to the Grievance Committee, the committee will recommend that his/her membership be suspended. At this time the Grievance Committee will send a second letter via certified mail. If the grieved/accused does not respond in writing to the Grievance committee within a further 30 days from this certified postal date, the committee will recommend that his/her membership be terminated.

If a member has had his/her membership suspended or terminated due to their lack of response to the grievance committee, he/she may petition the Board of Directors to re-open the grievance against them by submitting documentation that was previously requested by the Grievance Committee.

The final decisions of the AMHA Board of Directors will be posted on the AMHA web site.

This prompted Ed Sisk to get involved in your forum (and I congratulate him).

In many associations with professional members there are ethics or grievance committees. The reason for their existence includes things like governing whether or not rules are being followed by their members, their Board of Directors, Executive committees, Licensed officials, employees, etceteras. In our association it is extremely important at this juncture of our evolution that we have some check and balance system. A Grievance committee could be used to alleviate the workload of our BOD and our EC allowing them to concentrate on business matters that could move this association forward. It would also set the very penalties and processes we all feel are necessary to stem the tide in this “measuring fiasco”.

Currently I am attempting to garner the necessary backing by the volunteer (BOD and committee members) to start the process of writing the rule submission (in completed form so it will pass Show Rules). I welcome any submissions. I can be contacted by email at: [email protected]

Respectfully

Gary Barnes
 
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rabbitsfizz

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Sounds like a good idea.

Now.........how do you think we would get that up and running???

The problem is that we cannot get the rules that are in place enforced, how would we go about getting a committee that might just give credence to the protests being made??

(NO sarcasm here, genuine questions only.)
 

horses mouth

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Sounds like a good idea.Now.........how do you think we would get that up and running???

The problem is that we cannot get the rules that are in place enforced, how would we go about getting a committee that might just give credence to the protests being made??

(NO sarcasm here, genuine questions only.)
AMHA used to have an "Ethics" committee and the running joke is, "We got rid of 'em 'cause they weren't ethical!"

The Bylaws allow the Board to "create and empower all committees both standing and special" so we need to "convince" the BOD that this is necessary. Fo the most part these concerns (like measuring) are being addressed by the BOD in the only fashion they believe they can (through rule changes). If we had some "balls" (like Ed say's) ie; enforcement of penalties from the measurer to the competitor and even the "Protest committee" we could get back on track. Like Ed say's "enforce the rules we have".

The way to get this done is to get YOUR board member to understand that this will take pressure off of them and allow them to to the job they were elected to do.

This committee must be structured so as to not be controlled by any one faction......
 
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horses mouth

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Lisa

Thanks for the kind words and vote of encouragement!

So, how can we get our BOD to listen to us when they will not return an e-mail? I think that is should be our first step, if they don't want the job they need to step down. Not to argue, just my opinion.
This is a sad commentery on the state of our association!

I have the same problem and have heard this A LOT in the last few years.

I will tell you that many of our BOD members have just given up. I hear all the time that there is no communication and they feel the EC is running right over the top of them.

Also, I have looked all over the site on AMHA ( I am sure I could be overlooking it somewhere) I can't find it - Can someone please tell me when voting for our BOD is coming up?
So, as much as I agree with the Grievance Committee - I think the first step is somehow getting our BOD to listen to us. So, again - How do I do that?
You will have to call the office and have Jamison look up when your region's election comes up again (every 3 years). They are all different.

People, we need to find a few new people that are willing to "take a bullet" for this association. IMO there are a few directors that will stand behind someone willing to take the heat. And yes I am running (here in Texas) this year!
 

horses mouth

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From Ronnie Clifton;

Note:

Ronnie was the president at the start of all of this dissention and knows full well what has transpired to bring us to the problems we now face.

Gary,

As to your proposal for a grievance committee; I could not agree more and I do believe as you outlined in your last paragraph, that ALL Grievances, Violations, and Fraudulent Practices should be addressed by (and only by) this committee and ALL Disciplinary Procedures should be directed by this committee.

As to the comments by our president “Integrity? That is what started this stuff. If the darn trainers and breeders had integrity, the Association would not need to change measuring or its protest rules.” and a few more statements that were made.

I read this when it was published for the world to see on L'il Beginnings and was quite taken aback and highly offended by these statements. While I am not a professional trainer I know and/or have known most of them in the industry and while I am aware of a few questionable acts I have been, as a whole, impressed with the integrity of the trainers in AMHA. I have been and still am a long time breeder and again while I have seen some shady deals I do believe as a whole the breeders are an honorable group of concerned folks. In my years as a member of AMHA I have had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know most all of the players from the small owner/breeder to the big names and have had the Honor of serving in several offices and on many committees. I am deeply concerned and must regretfully say that the biggest lack of integrity I have seen is at the Board and Executive level not the membership. Please understand that when I say Board it is not the B.O.D. in general but a few individuals that dominate, manipulate and work diligently behind the scenes to push personal agendas or to reconcile debts and favors owed. It is my belief that these few individuals have tainted the reputation of the association and have caused most of the unrest and squabbling. There seems to be some sort of misguided concept that instead of enforcing our current rules in an unbiased and consistent manner that we should instead enact new rules/policies to appease the beast while not really correcting the problems (which again would not need correcting if the existing rules were followed).

I am also concerned about some of the people and “groups” that are wanting to be so critical but to my knowledge have never been an active part of the functions within AMHA, but they have suddenly become experts on them now that they can sit at home in front of their computers and tell the world how the functions and events they have never participated in should be done….????

Another statement made by Mr. Want I take strong exception to is:

“I am probably the most forthright question/answer president that this association has ever had. Do not blow smoke towards me. I do not hide behind anything – those that know me know I am too big to hide behind anything.”

When things went bad at the end of 2003, I stood up in the general membership meeting in Portland and explained that while I had no part in any wrong doing I did accept full responsibility as the President of our organization for not watching diligently enough the people that were controlling our funds and our office staff. Through misplaced trust, some bad things were allowed to happen. I was guilty of being too trusting of some people that had pulled the wool over my and many others’ eyes and I vowed at that meeting to never be that trusting again. I have kept that vow and many of the ones that were head-hunting at the time are the very ones I have questioned on many issues and have alienated them for my efforts. I had already at the time of the Portland meeting taken decisive action to rid the organization of personnel that had led us off track and I offered to share knowledge and ideas with incoming officers on further actions needed (this offer was pretty much ignored). I never hid behind anything and while there were other executive officers at the time that were responsible for our fiscal well being I never pointed a finger at them, although they did run to ground and left me to face the members alone.

I am, have been for many years, and will continue to be a strong supporter of the American Miniature Horse, However I am very concerned about our future!

I know I have rambled on and have not paid much attention to grammar or flow but getting back to the statement of “Integrity? That is what started this stuff. If the darn trainers and breeders had integrity, the Association would not need to change measuring or its protest rules.”

We always hear the pretty speeches and comments like “the youth are our future” and “amateurs are the backbone of the association”. While I very much believe these statements and have said them myself we must recognize facts. The youth are our future, but the breeders are our present and the amateurs are the backbone but the trainers are the heart of the association. Without a present there is no future and a backbone is no good without a heart!

Let’s be blunt and face the fact that the majority of members are not financially well off enough to buy the top end horses and the folks that are don’t typically train/show them but hire trainers to train/show so that they can come to the shows and enjoy their investments and meet and socialize with others while the trainers take care of the work. If we did not have these trainers that keep their clientele happy and engaged in the horse world, the market would dry up and the shows would become at best local events and most miniature horses would become backyard pets that would command the price of backyard pets. At that sad point for our industry there would no longer be a need for an association or a president of that association to cast dispersion at the ”trainers and breeders”

Sincerely,

Ronnie Clifton

Past President

3 term Executive Committee

6 year B.O.D

Current concerned member
 

Mona

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I am also concerned about some of the people and “groups” that are wanting to be so critical but to my knowledge have never been an active part of the functions within AMHA, but they have suddenly become experts on them now that they can sit at home in front of their computers and tell the world how the functions and events they have never participated in should be done….????
If not for those people/groups as you have outlined in your quote above, MUCH of this would still be hiding under the carpet that the Board/EC have swept it under for safe keeping.
I am an AMHA member, as are all of the people in the C.A.R.E goup. We formed this group because we CARE about what is happening within the Board of the AMHA and feel it will not be run honestly until we can bring these wrong doings out into the open, into the eyes of the general membership to see what those "in power" (or at least some of them!) are doing, and what the others are allowing to happen within our association. Without people knowing, things will not get fixed. Without fixing, AMHA will continue it's downward plunge. I personally don't want to see the demise of AMHA so I am trying to HELP before that happens! Because I am a member in good standing, it matters NOT that I don't show, or that I have not served on a committee! It is THAT line of thinking that has brought many of us here to our current feelings...basically saying, "you have no voice...you're only a member and since you do not participate in organized AMHA shows or committees you have no say in anything the association does!" This is HOGWASH at it's finest!
So no, I am by no means any "expert" sitting behind my computer, but I do care enough to try to help right what has been wronged over the years. If you don't like it, that is your perrogative, but it is also ours as AMHA members to question actions of our association.
 

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As to the comments by our president “Integrity? That is what started this stuff. If the darn trainers and breeders had integrity, the Association would not need to change measuring or its protest rules.” and a few more statements that were made
.............. I strongly disagree with this statement........... It IS & WAS up to AMHA leaders, officials, show chair people, etc to see that the rules WERE followed............... We've been showing AMHA since 1986 & have seen lots of what was allowed to slip by. It was like a spark in the forest that was witnessed but nothing, or very little was done and it soon became a forest fire out of control affecting everyone .................... If the few HAD BEEN disciplined from the get go and others heard about it, this mess would NOT be affecting so many others today! The few bad apples have spoiled the whole barrel and it WAS the job of those AMHA people in control to pluck the bad boys out.
 
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ruffian

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but the trainers are the heart of the association. Without a present there is no future and a backbone is no good without a heart!
Let’s be blunt and face the fact that the majority of members are not financially well off enough to buy the top end horses and the folks that are don’t typically train/show them but hire trainers to train/show so that they can come to the shows and enjoy their investments and meet and socialize with others while the trainers take care of the work. If we did not have these trainers that keep their clientele happy and engaged in the horse world, the market would dry up and the shows would become at best local events and most miniature horses would become backyard pets that would command the price of backyard pets. At that sad point for our industry there would no longer be a need for an association or a president of that association to cast dispersion at the ”trainers and breeders”
This in unmitigated hogwash (IMO) This association started WITHOUT professional trainers. Many of them came from other breeds when they recognized that they could make just as much money with a whole lot less work.

Why would you say that we would not need an association? I am just as important, if not more so, to the miniature horse world. My 20 horses in my back yard have some of the finest breeding out there. No, I don't spend $50,000 for a horse, but I've been in AMHA AND AMHR since the beginning. Many of the trainer's clients and big farms are in it for the write off, here for 7 years, and gone. They spend thousands, breed hundreds, and flood the market. THAT"S where the market is being hurt. They buy a National Champion stallion, breed 50 - 200 mares a year to recoup their investment. Keep a few, dump the rest.

I have 10 breedable mares of good quality. I have 3 stallions. I had 3 foals this year and 3 last year. One this year was from a mare I bought who was supposed to be open. Am I flooding the market? I don't think so.

Why would shows become "at best local events"???? Many trainers have 1-horse-1-class barns. They bring 20 horses, and enter 20 classes. The amateur/backyard breeder takes 1-2 horses, and enters 6-10 classes. THE BACKYARD BREEDER PAYS THE BILLS AT THE SHOWS. I know, I was a long time show manager. Plus there are many back yard breeders who a breeding the best horses in the industry today.

"majority of members are not financially well off enough to buy the top end horses " Yep, you got me on that one. My National Top Ten driving gelding was a horse I received in a trade for a mare I bought for $250.

My daughters District Champion, many time champion halter and driving mare we bought as a weanling for $100. Oh, did I mention we turned down $10,000 for her???

"the folks that are don’t typically train/show them but hire trainers to train/show so that they can come to the shows and enjoy their investments and meet and socialize with others while the trainers take care of the work" Yep, got me again. Oh wait, I enjoy taking care of my horses, and I enjoy socializing with my friends and fellow horse owners. One show we had a s'mores party. Put that in your champagne bottle and drink it.

Yes, AMHA did have an ethics committee at one time. They appointed as head a member who had just come off suspension for having oversize horses at the national show.

OK - Off my soap box
 

horses mouth

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Mona & LisaF

I knew that when I posted Ronnie's email (with his pemission) that it would strike at the "heart cords" of this forum. That said, it is what it is. I also know that people take things to heart and make comments like these much worse than they are intended. Take for instance Mike Wants remarks about the BOD members and the "trainers and breeders" quoted by me (in my original email) and by Ronnie and other NON lil beginnings members. Those quotes floated around on this forum for months and to my knowledge no one from this forum was upset by them.

No where did Ronnie say that the little guy (not meant to be a slur) was not an equal.

I value this groups opinion and input (as I said before). But realize that not everyone else does (hence the problems). Your concerns for this organization are swept aside just as my concerns for what I believe could very well bring minis back to the status they deserve, by the leadership. They view us as a pain in their derriere.

This should be a wake up call for all of us to set our agendas aside!

This year at the national meeting we have the opportunity to elect new leaders. We need to take advantage of this situation and do MORE than we are doing presently (I think this was the root of Ronnie's computer statement).

New rules and rule changes about the same old problems are just causing us more problems.

Respectfully

Gary Barnes
 

McBunz

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Okay I will put my money where my mouth is... Who want my hundred bucks to protest the measuring at the nationals.. Any of the big time show horses that everyone knows is

over the 34 inch limit. Maybe I don't show, but I can show my support by offering to defend the measuring rules..
 

horses mouth

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Well, I am sometimes known to be too honest- but, if I am reading the thread right about - Miniature Horse Breeding Stock - I am ready to just sit down and CRY!
Why are rules NOT enforced with AMHR or AMHA?

What are SOME people thinking?

That is where some of the " Integrity" and honesty is MISSING!
LisaF

You said:

The quote, "Let’s be blunt and face the fact that the majority of members are not financially well off enough to buy the top end horses and the folks that are don’t typically train/show them but hire trainers to train/show so that they can come to the shows and enjoy their investments and meet and socialize with others while the trainers take care of the work. If we did not have these trainers that keep their clientele happy and engaged in the horse world, the market would dry up and the shows would become at best local events and most miniature horses would become backyard pets that would command the price of backyard pets. At that sad point for our industry there would no longer be a need for an association or a president of that association to cast dispersion at the ”trainers and breeders", Is what was leading me to believe that Mr. Clifton meant the little guy was NOT an equal. I think if you read it again, you will see where I am coming from.

I think as an AMHA member I deserve to be treated just like someone who is showing. Call me a backyard breeder if you want, but I do buy and breed the best that I can afford. Not, all my horses are listed on my website , but please feel free to take a look.

Where would AMHA be without the backyard breeders? We pay our membership dues, we pay for paperwork, etc. Where does anyone think AMHA would be without the backyard breeders? How many shows would there be if only the RICH was members of AMHA?

But you are taking Ronnie out of context, honestly!

This paragraph was to drive home the paragraph right above it (and to be grammarically correct it should have been ONE paragraph) which said, "We always hear the pretty speeches and comments like “the youth are our future” and “amateurs are the backbone of the association”. While I very much believe these statements and have said them myself we must recognize facts. The youth are our future, but the breeders are our present and the amateurs are the backbone but the trainers are the heart of the association. Without a present there is no future and a backbone is no good without a heart!

The point he is making is that he feels the trainers and breeders (because of integrity, hard work, and vision) have elevated this industry past the point of "exotic" pets (remember the exotic boom of the '70's?) to the values that we are enjoying (yea, I know they are dropping) today.

Please don't cast dispersion at every choice he uses to try to explain his thoughts. I have spoken with him and he suffers from "inverted tourets syndrome" the same as me (people randomly swear at him)


I was accused by a member of the Futurity committee a year ago of talking down because in a phone conversation I used the term "little people" (funny thing was I was trying to include an amateur division to the new futurity and I did!). This person trying to defame and discredit me is probably the biggest breeder in our association!

Remember; we are all trying to fix the same problem and we're on the same side!
 
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horses mouth

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Ok, another letter from a past director, Barbara Naviaux (posted here with her permission). When I asked for her permission this was her reply:

That would be fine, Gary, if you think it would be helpful. At least we have a good bit of time before the Annual Meeting, so I have strong hopes that we will be able to get going on this before then.

Barbara

Thanks, Gary and Ronnie, for sending these very thought-provoking letters, but I am worried for both of you. Many years ago, AMHA had an "Ethics Committee". My close friend, Nancy Rivenburgh, was on the committee, so I was able to follow the many good things that they were trying to do for AMHA. Unfortunately, several folks were being discussed, powerful and moneyed folks, who were making threats to the committee if their indiscretions were presented to the Board. Well, guess what, the Ethics Committee was finally forced to disband and none of these folks received even so much as a slap on the hand! Might not these folks (some of whom are still with us) fight the formation of a Greivance Committee and/or even cause its demise?

I was very impressed with something Ronnie said at the end of his letter. So impressed, that I will quote him for everyone to read a second time, "We always hear the pretty speaches and comments like 'the Youth is our future' and 'Amateurs are the backbone of the Association'. While I very much believe these statements and have said them myself we must recognize facts. The Youth are our future, but the breeders are the present and the amateurs are the backbone but the Trainers are the heart of the Association. Without a present, there is no future and a backbone is no good without a heart"! Then, further on, Ronnie wrote, "If we did not have those trainers that keep their clientele happy and engaged in the horse world, the market would dry up and the shows would become at best local events and most miniature horses would become backyard pets that would command the price of backyard pets".

Yes, I also believe that this upcoming February "Annual Meeting" in San Diego will be a pivotal one. I am very glad that I will be able to attend and I will say and do whatever I can to help make it a successful one for our very valuable and indispensible Breeders (many of whom are the small ones like myself) and the Trainers.

Barbara Naviaux
 
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horses mouth

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LisaF

I will be leaving EARLY tomorrow morn for Central Regionals, so this will be my last post until Tuesday.

It is a shame we are in the position that we currently have with AMHA. There are many reasons.

I have heard the stories that Barbara is referring to, but they are just that until the parties involved STAND UP. The problem with bullies is they are just that, bullies. I'm a bit tough and have learned to fight but not everyone has that fortitude. As I think I have said before, the GOOD people give up because they just keep getting beat down. Case in point; When I told Ronnie I believe that now was the time to stand up and I was going to run for director, his reply was (all in caps) GOOD LUCK !!!

This is exactly what THEY want to see and they are winning. My fear is they are going to be the winners and rulers of NOTHING!

They are too short sighted to see that they are ruining what they so desperately want to Rule. It's kinda like that abusive partner that is so jealous they beat the other partner so they will not leave..............self defeating, huh?

We have to get more people to stand up.

Notice that there were 300 or so looks but only your reply for the first 4 or so days of this post?

Notice now that that has doubled in a day (cause I changed the header)?

Notice that no one (except you ) has gotten on the wagon (this statement is for effect and is not meant to be derogatory)?

I think Ronnie's concerns about "computer" should be used to galvanize this forum. Take the time to act outside of this forum (they don't expect you to), get involved, make a statement, get mad as heck (and get involved by hammering on some doors).

I'll step up a bit more:

I feel this is worth my time and money so I'll make this pledge.

Everyone that wants to do their part, email me your phone number to: [email protected]

I'll spend MY MONEY to call you and together we'll work out some ways to get their attention.

Remember, I'll be gone until Tuesday.

Gary Barnes
 

Mona

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I think Ronnie's concerns about "computer" should be used to galvanize this forum. Take the time to act outside of this forum (they don't expect you to), get involved, make a statement, get mad as heck (and get involved by hammering on some doors).
I am sure you are both VERY AWARE that the C.A.R.E. group HAS acted outside this forum! We HAVE gotten involved, we HAVE made statements, and we HAVE gotten madder than heck, but I guess maybe you and Ronnie fail to see that.
 

bingo

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And Ronnie, just so you know and understand.....

I am also concerned about some of the people and “groups” that are wanting to be so critical but to my knowledge have never been an active part of the functions within AMHA, but they have suddenly become experts on them now that they can sit at home in front of their computers and tell the world how the functions and events they have never participated in should be done….????
As far as "The Group" that you think sits at the computer and doesn't show or get involved, you might just embarass yourself Ronnie, if you knew the facts. "The Group" has members with a lot of AMHA knowledge, experience in showing, breeding champions, serving on committees, serving on the board and executive committee, as well as legal guidance."

It is always best to know the Facts First.
I totally agree. What more do we need to know? Lets see we can start wtih the *missing funds* a few years back - we can go to the brick wall fiasco, how about the first computer program fiasco all of these things not using funds how they were supposed to be used and causing severe financial difficulty for AMHA. Then how about the wanting to rent out the non exisitent new computer program to register llamas and such? I forget what it was called that registry thought up and agreed on by members of the Exec board without member knowledge? And those that still deny being part of that forget the paperwork filed with the state of TX could be purchased for less then 10 dollars with signatures for all to see.

Now lets move on to the 2nd computer fiasco, the measuring fiasco that went on at World last year. Hmmm could we add now trying to change the measuring place of AMHA minis without proper procedure.

Once again the answer from those higher up seems to be Silly people you know nothing how dare you even think you can speak your mind on the registry you help fund.


Whole thing gets very tiresome!
 

Vertical Limit

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not only do I agree with all of the above......

If we did not have these trainers that keep their clientele happy and engaged in the horse world, the market would dry up and the shows would become at best local events and most miniature horses would become backyard pets that would command the price of backyard pets.
Are these are the same trainers who bully their way through measurements so they can fill their "dance card". To make sure they have a horse to take in every class they manipulate measurements. (and to make more $$$$$$) This is what you see as being good for AMHA? Well, many see it as it's demise! Why do you think many have quit showing or don't want to get involved.


And why should people volunteer their time? To be another puppet in place to sit and have no voice?

Bingo.....yes.......the whole thing gets very tiresome.
 

Ronnie

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First and foremost my most sincere apologizes to anyone my words may have offended. I was mainly blowing off steam to Gary and did not choose my words very well to convey what I meant. This is what, as Gary said, makes me susceptible to "inverted tourets syndrome". Please understand I am just as disturbed by some things that have happened as all of you are and applaud Gary and many of you for taking action.

Mona, I am sure you misunderstood what I was trying to say and I can see how you would after re-reading what I typed. You said: “I am sure you are both VERY AWARE that the C.A.R.E. group HAS acted outside this forum! We HAVE gotten involved, we HAVE made statements, and we HAVE gotten madder than heck, but I guess maybe you and Ronnie fail to see that”.

You are correct in that I am well aware and thanks to you, your C.A.R.E group has acted in a positive and constructive way and have achieved good results. My statement was as Gary said intended to “galvanize” others and encourage them into action. My comment about “some of the people and “groups” being experts sitting behind their computers” was not directed towards you or C.A.R.E. Quite the opposite I would refer to your actions as an example of what needs to be done. You and your group did not just sit behind your computers and gripe, you took action, garnered support, addressed the issue and achieved favorable results, all of which I was quite impressed with and applaud you for. I was referring to the individuals and some other “groups” that have made a lot of online complaints over the years. I have come on here and encouraged them to do exactly what you did, put their words and thoughts into action because if not they will see no results. Again what you and others working with you have done should be the example of what needs doing and I am very sorry if you or anyone took what I said any other way!

Lisa F. and any others that took my comments about the big names using the trainers and that being a big part of the industry….Please, Please understand that I in no way meant this to imply that anyone not using trainers, or buying high dollar horses was of any less importance. To the contrary the small breeder and the general membership is what makes our association viable, I was talking about the hype and good publicity that comes from the high end horses that can have the money put behind them and the promotion that makes all miniatures viewed favorable, especially by those new to the breed. This in no way means that people who don’t have the big bucks to promote and hire trainers are of any less importance nor that their horses are of any less quality. I myself am not a big name in the show ring and am by no means wealthy but by doing what I could when I could and being willing to “take a bullet” as Gary said (and I took a few here) I have been able to do a lot in AMHA. I feel honored and blessed to have been able to serve AMHA and to have had the opportunities my family and I have had with these wonderful little equine and we started about as “back yard” as you can get, so if I can get heard anyone can.

Again to any and all that I may have offended in my outspoken but not very well stated manner, My Sincere Apologies. I think anyone who knows me personally will tell you that while my mouth (or in this case typing fingers) may get me in trouble, my heart is on track and I want what is best for the American Miniature Horse in every association and in all venues.

Ronnie Clifton
 

Mona

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Ronnie, I want to personally thank you for your post and comments clarifying the intentions of your email. That certainly does make me feel MUCH better in that what C.A.R.E. has been doing is being appreciated and looked at positively by some, and that it is being seen that what we are doing, is being done in a helpful way, and not meant as a slam to the association!
 
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Mona

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Lisa, in a nutshell, there have been several instances of things done within the organization that have not been in the best interest of the general membership and/or not gone through the proper channels.

The event that was "the icing on the cake" was when the new measuring rule was voted in, in February of this year. There were several of us so dead against this that we decided to try to have it rescinded. As a result, a group of people formed CARE. (Concerned Advocates for Rule Enforcement)

In researching the Rules and Rulebooks, looking through minutes of past meetings etc., we discovered many problems with the way things were handled within the Association. (Some of what Bingo posted about, but other things as well)

Some AMHA members are in support of CARE's efforts, while others are totally against our efforts. The real sad part is, many choose to totally ignore our findings, wishing we had not begun digging up "old skeletons" and others are in support of us but are not comfortable in publicly posting their support, for fear of being blackballed by their peers.

I hope this has helped you to understand a little better.


OK - Can someone PLEASE explain to me what is going on? I must be EXTREMELY NAIVE LATELY!
I didn't know about 1/2 of the stuff you posted about Bingo. I am glad you posted it thought because members need to know. Please post about it on here or PM me.

This is what I thought was going on - I will even wright it in order - Please someone explain or e-mail me or PM me. I feel silly being in the DARK this bad.

1) Some wrong things happening in the AMHA - from computer failure's, measuring rules, etc. - I do know this has been happening for a LONG TIME.

2) All the cheaters were getting away with it - Also, for a very LONG TIME

3) C.A.R.E started - Since our directors in my opinion would never listen to us - C.A.R.E DID

4) AMHA Members started going to C.A.R.E because they knew they had a voice. - I can only speak for myself, but I have

never had a voice with my directors

5) The President, BOD, High Dollar Farms, etc. - in AMHA started realizing C.A.R.E. was serious and NOT going away.

6) They also realized that AMHA Members were supporting C.A.R.E and getting really TIRED of the OLD WAYS.

7) So, then SOME of the High Up ( I don't know what else to call them) in AMHA realized since CARE was strong and here

to stay, AMHA members RESPECTED C.A.R.E for what they were doing - that they realized something HAD TO BE

DONE - to stop all the " wrong doings' in the AMHA. ( and I didn't even know about some of the wrong doings)

8) So, now Gary, Ronnie, Barbara, are speaking out and I THOUGHT agreeing that things needed to be changed. That

C.A.R.E was in the RIGHT.

9) I was HOPING the members that wanted to be in C.A.R.E - Would end up on this Grievance Committee that is being

talked about.

Ok, I will admit - I was confused and DO NOT agree with the quote about sitting behind the computer - I responded to Ronnie or Gary - I can't remember now which one. I can't even remember if I got a response - I will have to look back.

PLEASE - I don't want anyone to be too hard on me, I still need to drink some coffee to wake up a little


Can someone EXPLAIN to me what I am missing?
 
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