A pet peeve of mine - this just "drives" me CRAZY

[MiniHGal]

Oops, ClickMini, didn't see your post...

Yes, French tugs should be ok(and make for a neater look)...I have never had actual driving experience with them, but know people who use them and they work. Maybe some who drive in them could help you.

Because this is a 'show ring' turnout, you will probably be fine without tug stops...if you have any sliding at all...definitely time for tug stops. I would either limit this turnout to show arena(and light road driving, maybe), or add breeching or tug stops.

Yes, you can add tug stops after the fact, whether you have wood or metal...wood, you can order tug stops and have them put on, metal, have a welder put in a tug stop(or, again, order some and have them put on). Up to you...

 

[Sue_C.]

it seems to have the strap wrapping around the trace, catching it close to the shaft

Nope, the trace just runs through the "hole" made by the wrap...it stays loose. It is hard to make it look right in a non-dimentional drawing.

 

[wildoak]

Great thread. Thanks all for taking the time to post such good pictures and information. I've got two I'm starting this year, after a 2-3 year hiatus from driving, and still much to learn.

Jan

 

[MiniHGal]

Thanks Sue, didn't think it did...but just to clarify!

 

[Stacey - BANNED!!!!!!!]

Holy smokes. All this stuff just confuses me so much! My first hitching experience was with a very experienced driver and I learned many hitches, single light harness, single draft harness, pairs draft harness and four-up draft as well. But doing it with my own horse, I feel like I do everything wrong! And it certainly doesn't help that I've never been able to find a harness small enough. *sigh* Well, it'll be a LONG time before I ever have to worry about that again and hopefully by then I can have someone as experienced as you guys to make sure I do it right.

I'm totally embarrassed to post these, but in the hopes that it can be educational... this is my boy hitched up a couple of years ago (yep, thats a folded towel under the saddle, was just TEMPORARY, and used very little, until I got a real pad). My only real excuse (beside being an idiot, lol) is that he is 29" and it was a harness for large 'A' size horses, so I was doing some serious modification (which I shouldn't have, I know). Anyway, go ahead and tear me apart, I can take it... I think... lol.

*hides*

 

[Chamomile]

Stacy thank you so much for posting those shots!!!

Actually it isn't as bad as you think...

One thing though... you can see what Sue_C is talking about, the cart putting pressure on the horses belly, in that last shot. The seat is a little too far back on the cart, therefor when the driver sits in it it pops those shaft up. That will eventually make the horses belly sore. Great learning photo!!! We didn't have one that showed that well at all!! There is a difference in this shot, than a shot of a properly balanced cart with a slight uphill look from the shaft to the horse. A properly balanced cart that has the uphill look to it is featherlight in the ends of the shafts with someone sitting in the cart. There would be no upward or downward pressure of the shafts on the horse... (I hope this is making sense!!! It's late and I should be in bed!

)

Of course the breeching isn't wrapped around the shafts properly. It should be "snugger" and wrapped around the shafts instead of hanging down like in the photo.

The blinders should be lowered so his eye is in the center of them... and the noseband would need to be tightened up... The reason for the tight noseband is so that it is harder for the horse to get it's tongue over the bit. It can still happen, but with a nice tight noseband, or caveson, it's less likely to happen!

Your breast collar looks great! And for such a little guy, the harness isn't sagging everywhere!

Thanks again Stacey, you're great to post these for us!!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

And we should rip you a new one...why?

Come on, the 29"ers are incredibly hard to fit! I'm still trying to figure out what that odd buckle under his breeching is- is that what's left after you wrapped it or did you just buckle it without wrapping? I did that too at first but it looked like it fit that way on my cart.

And I also almost used a towel at my first driving clinic but someone had a pad I could borrow. Don't panic!

I think overall he looks pretty well-hitched. Your cart appears balanced (what you can see of it) in the standing shots, but it looks like maybe it floated up once someone was in the vehicle and he was moving? In which case you need to move your seat forward a little and tighten your wrap straps.

You're brave Stacey!

for you.

Leia

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Ha, Mindy, I posted at the same time you did! And I'm doing the happy dance because I said the same things. LOL. ::sings:: I'm learning, I'm learning....

In the third shot, I just noticed it looks like his check is way too loose?

Question of my own: My Edgeman cart seems properly balanced when I'm sitting in it, I know I checked that when I first got it. But when I'm hitching Kody up to the empty cart it sure sits awful heavy in his tugs. Is that normal? I had my mom hold the shafts when I was in it so I'm using her judgment that it is balanced correctly; I can only check it with her in it and she weighs a good 25lbs. more than I do.

Leia

 

[Kim]

Stacy thank you so much for posting those shots!!! 
... and the noseband would need to be tightened up...  The reason for the tight noseband is so that it is harder for the horse to get it's tongue over the bit.  It can still happen, but with a nice tight noseband, or caveson, it's less likely to happen!

Actually, this is a debatable point. The noseband does NOT need to be super tight. It's actually more uncomfortable for the horse if it is really tight. If you have a horse that is opening its mouth or something, you have a problem with the horse, not the harness, and you shoudl try to fix the root of the problem.

Also, regarding the comment about the check being too loose, checks are a training aid and sometimes they need to be loose. I actually prefer my checks to be loose (although not quite as loose as in Stacey's picture), even on a finished horse, as a finished horse shouldn't be leaning on the check. Regarding Stacey's picture, I think that the check is just fine for a beginning horse--she wouldn't want it to bump his mouth at all.

 

[Stacey - BANNED!!!!!!!]

Yes, thats the breeching strap hanging way down low there, oops! I must have had a mental block on how to do that right, lol.

And as for the check, that was only his first day in harness hitched to the cart, so I didn't want the check to even touch him, hence the reason it's soooo loose.

But YAY, glad to know I didn't make a complete mess of it all, lol.

 

[Chamomile]

The noseband isn't supposed to be obscenly tight. It should be tight, but loose enough that you can slide your finger between the noseband and the horse. But, yes it does need to be tighter than a halter. It is mostly to help with keeping the tongue under the bit, not so much to keep the horses mouth shut.

The check rein is debateable as well. I don't even drive with one at all... at this time.... But I would also drive with it loose as it is in the photo. I don't see that as a potential problem. If you use one, but are just starting a horse, you should start it with a loose check. Then slowly tighten it up as you go...

 

[hobbyhorse23]

This is interesting.

I drive strictly ADS at this time and so don't use any checks at all, and you can bet when I have that they were loose (not affecting the horse unless it tried to drop its neck below horizontal but coming into play immediately at that point.) Kody was started in an overcheck by a 4-H driver and I used one when I bought him because I assumed it was just something you needed to do. When I started CDE's and had to take it off I realized he didn't need it and haven't put it back on since. But in this picture...

I would really wonder what the point of having it on at all is? I mean I see that you probably want to prevent the horse from grazing, but really at that length you might as well just correct him with the reins. That's what all the ADS folk do if your horse tries to graze- you just pull him back up, same as the check would! One that loose isn't going to prevent him from trying in the first place, it will just react faster than you could in correcting him. I guess I'm fussing because my 4-H instincts were saying that something that long (hanging down almost to the bottom of his neck) must somehow be dangerous. But I guess it's not. He can't get a foot through it, nor is he really likely to get it hooked on a shaft if he turns his head. But to me, that is too loose to bother having it on at all. Why not just drive without?

Honest question.

Leia

 

[shminifancier]

If I can find a picture that shows me driving my shetland which is a good pcture that shows everything I Should post that Then you all could point out what is wrong with it Cause I know that ezch and every time I hitched up I did it different and I know for a fact it waqs not really correct..but I was not showing just driving aorund the fields and irrigation canals in Tempe, AZ. I knwo that just about everything I did was worng But it worked just the same...I will see if I can find a good picture...to post then ya all can "Have At It" I don't drive anymoreI don't have that Stetland pony anymore nor do I have a cart anymore.

 

[Stacey - BANNED!!!!!!!]

I dont have the harness anymore, so can't look to be sure, but I think it was a real buggar to get the check on and off all the time. I'd been ground driving him in it before with it tighter, but, as I said, it was the first time he'd been hitched to the cart, so the last thing I wanted was him dropping his head to pull and hitting the check and possibly freaking out. Also, in that picture, all the excess had slid to that one side, it was NOT hanging down like that on the other side, in fact, it was up practically in his mane.

I also remember what the deal was with the noseband there. The harness didn't have one, so I bought a seperate cavesson and, surprise surpise, it was miles too big for him. So I punched a couple new holes and did the best I could until I was able to get one custom made.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Okay, thank you Stacey! I really appreciate you posting all this for us to pick apart; I know I learned a few things.

Could someone help me with my cart balancing issue a post or two up? And what about bit selection?

Oh my gosh, that one scares me to death and is a little related to cavessons. I have very soft hands but only at my absolute lightest can I keep Kody from opening his mouth and fussing (tightening his neck, shaking his head, generally acting like he hates the bit) every time I touch him. I've been to several clinics and both trainers commented that I have good hands but Kody is really sensitive and I might want to look for a different bit as well.

But HOW?! I absolutely cannot afford a Mylar bit right now and that is what I want. He's in the starter bit that came with my Ozark Mtn. Carriage Harness, I believe it is this one?

How do I know if it's too thick or maybe pinching him somewhere? How do I find out if he needs a mullen mouth, a snaffle, or whathaveyou without spending hundreds of dollars to try each one once and then have them lying around?

I'm about ready to do this

or this

I can put this on a separate thread if it's not appropriate, I'm just afraid it will get lost like most of mine do. People are getting answers on this thread!

Leia

 

[justaboutgeese]

Provided that bit is the correct size its a perfectly acceptable bit to drive your horse with. Its not a harsh bit and unless you are terribly ham fisted you should be able to get along fine with it. Its probably not the finest quality bit but is servicable.

 

[Chamomile]

Leia- Okay first the cart issue. Lots of times carts seem heavy when harnessing. The most important thing is that the cart is properly balanced when a person is sitting in it. A good way to tell if the cart is balanced is to hold it up to the horse at the height that it attaches to the tugs. Then take it over to a fence and slide the shafts through the fence. (Have someone standing by, just in case the cart pops off the fence and tips over backward!!) Sit in the cart and watch what the shafts do. Do they push downward on the fence? Do they pop way up off the fence?? They should hover just over the fence about an inch or so, that would be a properly balanced cart. If the cart pushes downward on the fence, then move your seat back, if the shafts pop way up off the fence, then move your seat forward... (In Stacey's post, the last photo with someone in the cart, you can see what happens when the cart isn't balanced and it is putting pressure on the horses tummy) I hope that helps!!

As for the bit, check your horses mouth... does he seem to have a low roof of the mouth at all? Even if he doesn't he may be much happier in a mullen mouth bit. I bought one for my mom's little mare at the local feed store for $6... It's a 3 1/2" bit with the open ring sides... the mare loves it! It was a cheap sollution to the same problem you are facing...

Also how long have you been driving your boy?? Is he pretty green? It maybe as easy as letting him wear his bit for awhile in his pen. I tie a bit to a halter and have them wear it in their stall or corral, not in the field, and I'm there the whole time, cleaning pens or doing yard work... Also another thing that I see often is people making sure the horse has a "wrinkle" or two, at the side of their mouth. Hold your fingers in your mouth for a few seconds, making sure to have a "wrinkle" or two and see how you like it! It is very uncomfortable!

I just let my horses hold the bit themselves. It's not hanging way low in their mouth, but there are no wrinkles either! I find my horses give up chewing and chomping the bit pretty quick that way. Thanks for your great questions!!!

Please feel free to ask more as you think of them!!

 

[Margo_C-T]

I will tell you what I heartily dislike about those"starter" bits, which seem to all be the same kind(that is, that "come with" harness)-see those gaps both above and below where the mouthpiece joins the cheekpieces? Can you say "PINCH"?(the corners of the lips). Also, these kinds of bits have no "arch" of each half of the broken mouthpiece to accomodate the arch of the top of the tongue, and all I have seen also have a large, bulky "joint", where the two halves of the mouthpiece are joined together-the one that lies basically "horizontally" is bound to "dig into' the top of the tongue, and because each half is straight, with no arch, it has even more than most of a "nutcracker" effect. BTW-the bit pictured doesn't itself look"too thick";in fact, it looks "too thin" at the outer ends(where it joins the cheekpieces. Most(not all, but most)bits are, I believe, more comfortable if they are "fatter" at the outer ends. Copper mouthpieces(or copper insets) encourage salivation and might be the one to consider in a dry-mouthed horse-though they can be so soft that a horse can literally "chew" into them, eventually creating rough edges and even the possibility of the mouthpiece breaking, so they aren't my choice unless in a very specific circumstance for a particular horse.

There are several other brands of bits "out there" that are so much better made that the kind you pictured, yet do not cost nearly what the Mylers do--I know, as I have several! I have a couple of Mylers, too, but all of my horses are quite comfortable in some of my other bits. Most of the ones I have in mind cost, nowadays, from @ $40 to@ $60 or so-not cheap, but 'WAY less than a Myler! Try looking on EVERY website that sells mini tack that you can find-if you find something that looks good, and want a second opinion, PM me, and I will take a look and tell you what I think. Your instincts are, IMO, exactly correct in feeling that your horse is likely not comfortable in that kind of bit! And, you likely don't/won't need an "exotic" mouthpiece, just a well-made, well-fitting "basic" bit-meaning you don't necessarily have to buy several different ones(though I have to say, having a variety of GOOD bits is virtually essential to anyone who is putting horses to a serious use, IMO!)

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Uw, okay, that's one of the bit questions I was thinking of. How do you know if he has a "low roof?" I mean that's relative, isn't it? I've already noticed his jaws and mouth are very different from my big horses and I don't have any other minis to compare him to.

So a mini with a low roof is constantly getting hit with the joint of the snaffle and hence gapes? That makes sense! So you move to a mullen mouth (or a lovely triple-jointed Mylar, drool.... ::snaps out of it:

and the horse no longer fusses. Perfect! What about copper inlays and all that stuff? And the joints on the side, how should they be designed so as not to pinch? I really don't trust the edges of Kody's bit; I think they have a lot of room to catch skin and sting (no matter where the bit is hung).

Does a mullen mouth work differently from a snaffle? i.e., a snaffle works by nutcracker action, a curb bit by squeezing the curb chain, so where does a mullen mouth fall? I don't want to accidentally move my green horse up to a curb bit without knowing properly how to make that transition. I've always ridden finished horses before and usually took them back to a snaffle, not up! LOL

Leia

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Margo, THANK YOU!! You have precisely expressed each and every thing I disliked about my current bit. Your explanation about digging into the tongue also makes sense. That explanation matches a lot of his complaints; the way he objects if I'm even holding contact beyond a wisp of a thought, and the low roof thing why he really reacts when I "use" the bit.

Kody is not at all dry-mouthed, so I'll probably stay away from copper then.

So basically go look for either another snaffle with a curve to it, small, rounded joint, and fat ends, or go for a good quality Mullenmouth?

Leia