New foal not nursing

[mdegner]

We had a little filly born late yesterday afternoon. Easy birth, no problems, experienced mare, good mama. Baby got up right away but seemed wobbly longer than most babies for a longer period of time. Sneezed alot yesterday and though at one time, it appeared she was looking for the faucet, she didn't find it. We nursed mama and got some in the baby. Also gave some foal response (or whatever its called). Baby otherwise appears to be strong and well built and seemingly healthy. Doesn't follow mama around very well. We really have to force her to eat and finally this morning, when we held the bottle in her mouth, she swallows and seems to be trying to do the nursing thing with her mouth. Its a battle though and takes both of us to hold her and keep the bottle in her mouth. Also, though mama did a good job of cleaning her yesterday and licking her, she's not licking and caretaking for her as much today. Could she sense something isn't right with the baby or, is it just because of the intervention we've had to do with the baby. Mama stays with baby and is very protective but, isn't necessarily cleaning her face up or her butt. Baby did poop good amount this morning

We've never had a baby that didn't get it right away, so unsure of what to do here. We continue to milk the mare and try and get 2-3 ounces in the baby every couple of hours. If we have to continue to feed her, how much should we try and get her and whats the frequency? I hate to use the term "dummy" foal, but are there common features or behaviors to that type of baby? Is it futile or will the baby get it?? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has been through this and please, if it's a futile exercise, don't be afraid to say that. I would rather let her go if she's going to have problems. Any advice or thoughts??

 

[Royal Crescent]

I am not experienced at all in foal, but from what I have read her, one thought comes to mind. Is she premie at all?

Good luck!

Barb

 

[disneyhorse]

Are her ear tips curled a little, does her tongue hang out?

The dummy foal we had here had some of those other signs...

Andrea

 

[mdegner]

We don't believe she is a premie since based on a 335 gestation, Kiss (mama) was due this upcoming monday. She is good sized, healthy build, good weight on her. She fights like heck and it takes two of us to hold her and get that bottle in her mouth. She was born somewhere between day 327 and 331 days. . .

Thanks for your response. . . I've since done a search on here and am encouraged to see that if you stick with them, they may come around. We have a call in to the vet too so, we'll see what she has to say. Thanks!

 

[Genie]

We have had two dummy foals. The one was 24 hours before she figured things out and the other was about 14 hours.

We felt they need to be fed every 1/2 hour with a bit of Mum's milk. We dabbed some molasses on the faucets and also a bit on the bottle nipple. Feeding the bottle thru between the back legs the foal looks for the nipple in the same area as Mum's faucet and eventually she will latch on to the "real thing" and you can sing the "Hallelulia Chorus"

 

[mdegner]

She seemed to have her tongue out a little bit yesterday after she was born. Ears are not curled though. We'll keep working with her and see what happens. Vet called and said she could come do the test but we'd have to take her to the University of MN to do the plasma thing. Thats not an option . . .

Thanks everybody for your help. We'll get milk in her every hour or so and we'll see if she will try and drink out of a bowl or bucket as she really fights the bottle and we don't want her to aspirate. Time will tell. . .

 

[eagles ring farm]

Have you tried getting her pointed in the right direction somewhat next to mom and scratching her hocks or butt like mom would do. We just had one tuesday night that was a challenge and fed him with a syringe when he couldn't latch on but he was sucking everything but the right place finally after about 12 hours he found it himself and learned how to position himself to reach. Does your foal have a sucking reflex?

Actually ours started to find it himself when I didn't get up till an hour late for 1 feeding

 

[minimule]

If she had a bowel movement, she had to get food in her at some point. If she's fighting you, maybe she isn't hungry? It is possible you aren't seeing her nurse. Is she active? If she isn't eating on her own, she would be acting weaker all the time.

 

[Riverdance]

Sometimes we worry too much about the new foal eating. It is surprising how many will find the spigot if they are left alone and get hungry enough.

I agree with minimule, if she is a handful and strong enough to fight you, she is probably nursing.

Good luck with her, and give her a chance to get hungry.

 

[Miniv]

Keep feeding her some of mom's colostrum but do it close by her mom's udder so she'll associate that part of the mare's body with the "milk bar". We also keep applying a bit of the colostrum all over mom's teats, so the baby will smell it when it gets close.

What you may have is a "dismature" foal.....which is different from premature. From our observations with a dismature baby is that not all their nerve endings are working quite right in the brain, but usually within 24 hours or so they start to catch up.

If you feed once an hour, it should provide energy for her to keep her searching. It's a balancing act because you want to make sure she gets plenty of colostrum, but still have her be just hungry enough that she wants to find the actual milk bar!

 

[mdegner]

We've never had one not nurse before but this one definitely is not. I normally leave them alone and just let nature take its course but we were watching this one since it was the first baby of the year and our stallions first baby. I think should go back to ignoring them. . . ha ha.....I think the initial poop was from the Foal response stuff we gave her last night. Anyway, she couldn't figure how to lay down either but we've been feeding her every hour and then making her lay down and she conks right out. The good news is she wakes up 20-30 mins later and starts licking and working her mouth like she wants to eat and she is now taking a bottle. She seems a little perkier too . . . .

We'll keep working with her and just "baby" her. Should we go ahead and worm the mare now too? Don't want to do something that could have an adverse effect now. . .

Dismature is new to me but it sounds very much like what her behavior was. Like she wasn't completely operating on all cyclinders though her appearance is that of a healthy, chunky, well developed baby. Maybe there was a little stress during birth as she had the merconium poop in ther sack. I know with human babies that can be a sign of distress. It wasn't a red bag or anything but mama had to push 5-9 times and it was probably 7-10 minutes from the first time the little bag appeared and when she was out. The bag broke on its own and I got it off her head and squeegied her nose right away. Maybe a bit of oxygen deprivation during birth..... The things you learn.....

Thanks again for your help, it is very much appreciated!! Looks like it will be a long night......

 

[Genie]

Our one dummy foal couldn't figure out laying down either.

Try feeding the bottle thru from the back between mums' legs and she will look for the nipple there and then have a dab of molasses on the bottle nipple and the mares faucets and she will eventually grab the right faucet and you'll be away.

It's hard work because it seems like you are just in for long enough to get another bottle ready.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Mary

If the merconium was in the sack then more than likely the baby is a distressed foal - possibly O2 deprived - the only foal I have ever had that was born with the merconium in the sack was one of those "sleeper foals" - I would be willing to bet that your baby will need a couple of days before she is operating on all cylinders - you know the drill, keep her warm, keep feeding her, make sure she is pooping and getting exercise - hopefully she will "wake up" soon and all the gears will start meshing - hang in there!

(((( )))))

Stac

 

[mdegner]

Hi Stacy: Very interesting......hopefully, the oxygen thing isn't permanent?? The bottle is still a bit of a struggle but she loves the bucket! We got quite a bit of milk in her through the end of the day and she's tucked in the barn with mama now. She still kind of wanders off and isn't terribly interested in mama. We also have to help her lay down and then she just sleeps and sleeps. Poor thing was standing for about 18 hours . . . I just hope the brain damage isn't permanent but rather that she will just be a little slow for a little while. Hopefully, she won't get pnuemonia or anything like that but if she lives, it looks like we will have a house horsie.....we'll have to take her with us. Sigh.....

If we can't get her to drink from mama, then we can at least hang a little bucket of milk and get her to start drinking freely from that. She's such a pretty little thing and really well built and heavy.....its a shame she had a bit of a birthing problem. I'm surprised she made it this far actually, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. Always something new to learn . . .

Savannah has to be low maintenance now.......NO MORE BABY problems.....Later, Mary

 

[mdegner]

Really good news this morning. She was very hungry and ate like a pig. She is really trying to find mamas faucets now too, so we might be out of the woods. Very active, bonding better with mama, running around. Seems more like a normal baby now. We will work her today on being able to nurse herself and then we are out of the woods and don't have to worry about who will milk and feed during the day.

If I can figure how to post a picture, we'll do that later. Thanks again to everyone who offered their experience and advice. Its definitely working and we might be able to put this one in the Saved column!

 

[Joanne]

If you feed once an hour, it should provide energy for her to keep her searching. It's a balancing act because you want to make sure she gets plenty of colostrum, but still have her be just hungry enough that she wants to find the actual milk bar!

I agree totally with Maryann. Sometimes the foals will look to humans for milk if they are the ones that have been feeding them. Mom is likely loosing interest because the baby is not actively nursing as much as she should.

Dummy foals are often limp, not strong and fighting. So I do not think you have one of those.

At some point the foals needs will be greater than what you are providing and they will search out the dam. I would encourage you to point the foal at the udders before you feed each time and see if you can get it to nurse.

You really do not want the foal to become dependent on you feeding it.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Good to hear Mary - sounds like she is waking up - just keep up the good work and I will bet that she will be just fine

Stac

 

[bevann]

Karo syrup works well on the mares udder.The baby should be looking under the mom.We had a foal named Forrest Gump-slow and funking legs.We took the baby bottle and stuck it near her teats.Forrest found it and we just moved it away and he latched on.took 2 people and several days but it worked.We also did physical therapy on his front legs.He turned out just fine.Good luck

 

[CheyAut]

I had a dumy foal born last year. Birth went fine. He was very alert and not limp or anything of the sort. He just didn't get that sucking was for mom's udder. He didn't really care about mom at all actually. Vet tube fed him and instructed us to keep trying to gte him to nurse and to bottle feed him if necessary. We till could not get himto suck, not even on the obttle. (sorry computer issues which is causing it not to type what I actually type). Ended up taknig him to the horsepital for his first few days. About 24 hours he finally figured it out, bu he did require bottle feeding andone omre tube feding before that, as wll as needing a plasma transfusion. Vet said th frst 72 hours are the critical ones, after that if thye are still alive and well the yshold be onrmal (which our guy is)