I need your experience and advice

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

susanne

dB
Joined
Nov 30, 2002
Messages
5,285
Reaction score
315
Location
To your left
I mentioned this briefly on another post, but I'd like to see if anyone else has experienced this.

My 3-year-old mare, Scarlet Ribbons, has had a nasty knot on top of her face roughly halfway between eye and muzzes. There was obviously an abscess, but the real question was what was causing this.

The first vet totally dismissed my suggestion/question that it might be a tooth/tooth bump problem -- as if I had suggested the tooth fairy was trapped inside Scarlet's mouth. She did no real exam, didn't even open her mouth, and diagnosed a wasp sting or insect bite and prescribed treatment accordingly.

We used hot compresses to draw out the abscess and treated it with betadine when it burst (drainage was clear). The bump then began to diminish, so I assumed she was right after all.

Then the swelling came up again, this time more of a hard, bony mass with a bit of pus. This was obviously not any insect bite or sting, so we called a different vet out to check her out.

The minute the vet saw Scarlet, she said she tended to agree with me, but examined her mouth, felt around, smelled her nostrils (to check if it was affecting her sinuses) and then took x-rays. The x-rays showed a dark area around the roots of that tooth.

Her diagnosis was that, due to a crowded jaw, the tooth came in crooked and caused an infection around the roots. She recommended extracting that tooth and prescribed antiobiotic for now. She said that the infection was trapped in the jawbone, for good and for bad. The position and the antibiotics would prevent the infection from spreading, but at the same time the antibiotics cannot knock out the infection entirely. She said that it was not a rush to do the extraction, but it needs to be done.

However, after several days of the antibiotics, the swelling (including the hard mass that the vet thought would be permanent) is almost flat...which really makes me wonder.

Needless to say, this is a serious procedure, so I want to make certain it truly is necessary before I put her through this.

Has anyone else had something like this? Is there anything else that should be considered? I have a call in to the vet about the mass going down and see what she says, but...

...have any of you experienced anything like this? How was it treated? Any interesting diagnoses?

Apologies for the long-winded post -- just want to give the particulars.

Thanks in advance!
 
Infections in bones are not good. If the tooth isn't at least pulled, it could abcess again. And if the infection can't be cleared by antibiotics, they may have to scrape the jawbone to remove it and flood it with antibiotics. Been through this once.
 
I have a horse that has a similar problem. I owned this mare until she was two years old then sold her and recently had the opportunity to re-purchase her in June of this year. When I arrived to pick her up in June, I was informed that she had been bitten by a brown recluse spider in August of 2008 on the left side of her face, halfway between her nostril and eye. I questioned this, asking if possibly she had been kicked or something. The former owner told me she had seen two pin-prick marks when it first happened and then the tissue started to die, eventually forming a nickel-sized hole in her face. It was treated by a vet with antibiotics, and the owner also cleaned it daily and packed it with Ichthammol to draw out the infection, as well as applied silver sulphadiazine (sp?). I believe it took about 6 months to heal, and the vet told her at the time that the sore would open back up in a year and drain for another three months. It was open and draining when I picked her up in June, and I have been cleaning, treating, etc. since then--it still is oozing, even though the actual hole is very small (not much bigger than 1/4" in diameter). I had the vet out last week and she didn't really buy the whole story and suggested I bring my mare in to the clinic to get x-rayed as she thought there may be a bone chip or some foreign object in her face that was causing the infection. There is no foul odor or nasal discharge, and my mare is not in any pain that I know of and has no fever. The vet said it is not life-threatening and that antibiotics may clear it up but it would not fix the root cause. She suggested it could be due to an infected tooth, although she did not even look in her mouth (which I thought was strange). I do plan to get an x-ray as soon as I can afford it (hopefully after Thanksgiving). Some days it seems like her face is much better and the hole almost gone, then other days it seems I am back at square one with a lot of pus. I will post when I have more answers
default_smile.png
. It is frustrating, to say the least.
 
MuffnTuff, You've voiced my biggest concern. Just to clarify, I'm not questioning that something needs to be done -- it's just that after one misdiagnosis, I now worry about just what is the right treatment.

Like your mare, lotsofspots, Scarlet is very high-spirited, has a great appetite, and has a normal temperature. Your situation sounds very much like ours. I have also wondered about a kick, but I'm guessing the treatment would be the same.
 
Once the body walls off the infection, no antibiotic can get to it. That is why the infection keeps reoccuring. It think it is called a fistulous tract. The tract will have to be opened to get to the infection. I had a dog that this happened to. The tooth abcessed but the problem was not caught in time--insect bite, horse kick, blah blah blah... when the vet got around to removing the tooth, the infection was already walled off. Took her to another vet, who finally diagnosed the problem. The infection was too close to the eye so we could not operate. She was put down, as the wound kept abcessing. We were syringing her wound twice a day for 6 months.

She ate heartily, played and romped, did all her usual antics the whole time. But one day, she started going off to lay by herself, and that seemed to signal the end.

You might suggest this to the vet and see if it is a possibility. Also, culture the infection to make sure you have the correct antibiotic. If my dog had been on the correct antibiotic early we might have saved her. A broad-spectrum antibiotic is not always the right one.
 
Thank you, Marsha -- I will definitely ask the vet about this.

I'm sorry that happened to your dog.
 
Finally had the vet out today to take x-rays of my mare's face. It appears there is a jog in the thin bone on her face underneath the wound which means it was broken/fractured due to a kick or running into something a while ago, and then when it healed, it didn’t heal straight. Vet said there is possibly a small bone fragment that is still in there which is causing the oozing, although nothing showed on the x-rays. It possibly may eventually work its way out, but the only other option is to do exploratory surgery by making a much larger incision and then just looking. Vet said it is not a life-threatening issue and is really more cosmetic, so it is up to me whether or not to do it. I don't want to put my mare through that and am inclined to hope whatever is in there will work its way out....I have seen it happen before. I will just continue with my daily treatment of cleaning and applying Ichthammol, which the vet recommended. Some days there is very little discharge and others there is alot. I am just glad I know more answers now. I'd be interested to see how your mare progresses, Susanne, and if there has been any change.
 
Hi Susanne

You may want to consider contacting Carl Mitz. He will return emails and/or phone calls.

It may take him a few days. He has helped me several times.

~Sandy
 
Very interesting about your mare, lotsofspots! I'm going to ask them to double-check Scarlet's x-rays for any possible breaks or cracks -- they may have been focusing on the tooth and missed something like this. I know that when I cracked a leg bone, the sports medicine doctor almost missed it -- and he was looking for that very thing.

The current plan is for an extraction under anasthesia -- supposedly less traumatic and less dangerous than the slow pull under sedation. Everything is on hold at the moment while we're in the deep freeze.

Sandy, I wish we were closer to Carl Mitz -- I would so love to make use of his knowledge, skill and experience with minis. Or are you suggesting I get a general opinion via email? I'd feel a bit awkward and presumptuous asking, as we're not clients. (Hopefully someday he'll plan a trip to the northwest.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sandy, I wish we were closer to Carl Mitz -- I would so love to make use of his knowledge, skill and experience with minis. Or are you suggesting I get a general opinion via email? I'd feel a bit awkward and presumptuous asking, as we're not clients. (Hopefully someday he'll plan a trip to the northwest.)
Hi Susanne... I had a tooth issue last year... and was quite worried about it... so I just picked

up the phone and called him. I left a message,, figuring,, ok, I'm in Virginia, and not a client...

I'll never hear from him. Much to my surprise, he called! He is amazing, cheerful and very helpful.

He talked to a colleague in my area and worked out a plan to help me. And, he did the same

thing again for me this year, for a another horse. I just can't say enough good things about him
default_smile.png


Good Luck.. I hope things work ot for your horse.

~Sandy
 
That is so cool -- I was already impressed by what I've heard, but that is just amazing!

Would you be willing to PM me his phone number? I still feel shy about calling, but perhaps in return I could line up enough mini people in Oregon and Washington needing his services to put together a busman's holiday here in the northwest...(later, when our enjoyable weather returns)
 
Finally had the vet out today to take x-rays of my mare's face. It appears there is a jog in the thin bone on her face underneath the wound which means it was broken/fractured due to a kick or running into something a while ago, and then when it healed, it didn’t heal straight. Vet said there is possibly a small bone fragment that is still in there which is causing the oozing, although nothing showed on the x-rays. It possibly may eventually work its way out, but the only other option is to do exploratory surgery by making a much larger incision and then just looking. Vet said it is not a life-threatening issue and is really more cosmetic, so it is up to me whether or not to do it. I don't want to put my mare through that and am inclined to hope whatever is in there will work its way out....I have seen it happen before. I will just continue with my daily treatment of cleaning and applying Ichthammol, which the vet recommended. Some days there is very little discharge and others there is alot. I am just glad I know more answers now. I'd be interested to see how your mare progresses, Susanne, and if there has been any change.
I had this happen to a friends mare... she decided to wait and see. Not a good choice because the mare got a bone infection and things got worse..much worse. And it cost a lot more because she waited and the nursing care took a lot of time and was very spendy.

Susanne... if you get Carl Mitz out here.... let me know he is coming.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Back
Top