frontier ee cart club member questions

[susanne]

.

I would hardly say that anyone here is "getting defensive."

Nobody is questioning or denying that a Smart Cart or Bellcrown or the like is a superior cart. What you are not hearing is that several very accomplished drivers have testified as to their positive experiences with Frontier EE carts when driven wisely. (In my opinion, neither example of accidents posted above qualify as driving wisely.)

I hardly think you want to suggest that Margo is frivolous or careless in her statements (anyone who does is itching for a fight, LOL!)

Must we really dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator? Must we always write to the stupid few who would take an EE at breakneck speeds through hairpin turns? Can we not allow for Darwin's Theory to prevent our descent into Idiocracy?

Everyone has their opinions, but no one needs to act as if their beliefs surpass those of others, especially when those opinions are based upon their experience, and thus, their facts.

Myrna, I greatly respect your experience and knowledge; however, age has taught me to triangulate amongst my resources, to never rely on one source of information, and to never discount my own, albeit limited, experience.

 

[Minimor]

Who is getting defensive? I haven’t noticed that anyone is, except perhaps Myrna herself.

What’s wrong with a Smart Cart? Absolutely nothing. Are they superior to the EE carts being discussed here? Yes, certainly. Why do you think I have 2 of them? So that my mom & I can each have one and we don’t have to fight over who gets to drive the Smart Cart and who has to use the EE!

But, a Smart Cart is not within everyone’s budget. That’s the one thing wrong with the Smart Cart—the high price. I am NOT complaining about the price—but there are so many people that would never get to enjoy driving their horses if they had to wait to have the money to allow them to buy a Smart Cart or its equivalent. The EE cart is the one we hear of most often being involved in some wreck or other, but that is quite possibly because there are so many people driving EE carts! For every Smart Cart/equivalent being driven there are probably 100+ EE carts being driven!

I personally would never tell someone “unless you can spend the money to buy a Smart Cart you shouldn’t be driving at all”—how snobbish that sounds. I would rather tell them truthfully that they can buy an EE cart & have a lot of fun with it, provided they realize the cart’s limitations and drive it sensibly. If they tell me that they want to drive heck for leather cross country over the rocks, through the cactus, through the creek, turning back on a dime so that the cart stands up on one wheel as it turns around...I will then point out that the EE cart probably isn’t suitable for their purposes and they need to look at something different. But just because the EE cart is not suitable for someone wanting to drive that way does not mean that it is a disaster waiting to happen for my neighbour who only wants to drive up and down her long driveway, giving cart rides to her grandchildren.

 

[shorthorsemom]

goodness...

to sum it all up...

I am just looking for a second reasonably priced beater ee cart that I could take my kids for a loop around a field at a walk or maybe trot that wouldn't break the bank.

I did my homework researching carts for 6 months and came home with an aerocrown for lessons and hills and fast turns and getting my lessons with.... I started out that day planning to purchase the bellcrown minicrown and came home with an aerocrown because I thought it fit me better knowing full well that my kids couldn't go for a ride in it. I spent an hour sitting in one and then the other and still came home with the single seat cart, it just felt "right" when I sat in it like goldilocks and the bears chair.

I purchased the aerocrown because I really thought it was the best cart of choice and I said heck with the money, I wanted safer and light and easy to get in and out of... Its a great cart, has terrific wheels, great suspension. I really feel I made a good choice on my big bucks cart purchase.

Technically my first cart choice was actually a hyperbike but my instructor didn't feel I was sound enough to get in and out easily and she also felt my boy needed some more training at the stand.

I enertained the idea of keeping my meadowbrook for pony rides, but the whole reason I didn't want to keep the meadowbrook was because it was too heavy for my boy to pull, so the meadowbrook with two people in it would definitely be over the top unless he was in top condition, so I sold it. In addition I thought the sale of the meadowbrook would take the sting out of the price of the aerocrown because I truly believe you get what you paid for and was willing to go out on a limb to get a great cart for my boy to pull.

Another reason I choose the aercrown was the easy entry feature of the aerocrown, so technically I feel I own an easy entry cart already, it only has one seat.

On the meadowbrook the entry took too long as I had to go to the back of the cart, put the seat back down, lift the seat, step in over the axle for balance, put down the seat and put up the back rests and then sit down.. Too much delay, too much oportunity for problems...

I can mount my aerocrown in about two seconds after I unhook my boy from the cross ties.

I have my great high dollar cart and I know I choose well...... what I really wanted when I started this string to know is the opinion of a second pony ride cart to take a guest on a circle around the field. Right now I am down to two choices. The frontier ee cart and the ee cart from pequea which is right in my back yard would require no shipping and has a different type of spring system, more similar to the pequea meadowbrook I had that rode really smooth when I had it.

Does the ee cart really flip on a whim under "normal" driving circumstances? whoops, edited to say... don't answer that, I didn't mean to ask another question...

I don't want to buy another 2 K bellcrown in the minicrown style to get a bench seat... and I have probably used christmas, anniversary, and birthday present credit for myself for the next 3 years buying the aerocrown but I'd rather just tell my kids to forget the pony ride than to purchase an unsafe cart.

Anyway, I did get the answers I was looking for, it will probably take me forever to come to a decision if ever to get a second cart... I tortured myself over-thinking the Aerocrown..

We are as different as leaves on trees, that's what makes up a forum, everybody chipping in diverse opinions so people can gather information and make decisions for themselves.

Thanks all for your input of all opinions at all levels, I really do appreciate it.

I don't know why I put in this little guy, probably because I never saw him before and I laughed out loud. Laugh with me and enjoy.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Does the ee cart really flip on a whim under "normal" driving circumstances? whoops, edited to say... don't answer that, I didn't mean to ask another question...

I've driven with an EE cart for ten years and haven't flipped one yet. Granted, I rarely go he11 for leather in one but I did get taken for a ride once. Down a hill with no breeching(yeah, dumb me but I was still learning and my instructor said it was safe... right

) and the only was I could stop her was to whip her around and go back UP the hill! Didn't flip it.

My cart of choice for cross country/trail is my Meadowbrook. Only because my other choices are the EE and my Jerald. Someday I'll have a Smart Cart....

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Well said, Susanne and Minimor!

What would be the driving limitations on say a Minicrown, a Smart Cart and the like properly put to an appropriate horse other than maybe Turnout points in a Pleasure show?

(What can't you do with it?)

Drive crazy sideways down hills, go heck-for-leather through a scaled-down hazard with straight shafts, spin on a dime...every cart has limits. The only cart I know where I can pretty much forget about the vehicle and do what the horse is physically capable of is the Hyperbike!

To be fair I should probably clarify that I've been comparing EE's to the other carts people in that position could possible afford like Meadowbrooks and road carts and the like, not to top-dollar, top-designed competition vehicles such as you're listing. Those wooden vehicles have the same sort of limitations and their own dangers and that's why I'll take the lighter, easier to dismount on purpose, easier and cheaper to ship metal EE like Frontier. As the others have said, even some of the off-brand metal EE's are trash and you wouldn't catch me using them! But Frontier and CTM both make good carts that can be balanced and work for most horses. Coil springs aren't even that bad for someone like me- most sprung vehicles are way too stiff for my light weight and they ALL rattle my teeth out.

I was amazed how much better the ride was the one time I took a friend along in a borrowed gelding's wooden road cart than it was by myself. (My little wimp can't haul two so I'd never done that before).

...what I really wanted when I started this string to know is the opinion of a second pony ride cart to take a guest on a circle around the field. Right now I am down to two choices. The frontier ee cart and the ee cart from pequea which is right in my back yard would require no shipping and has a different type of spring system, more similar to the pequea meadowbrook I had that rode really smooth when I had it.
Does the ee cart really flip on a whim under "normal" driving circumstances? whoops, edited to say... don't answer that, I didn't mean to ask another question...

Short answer: No, it does not. What most of us are saying is that taking a guest on a pony ride around the field is EXACTLY what EE's were invented for. I'm much more comfortable taking a child in a cart I can quickly hand (or shove!) them out of than one I'd have to lift them over a high bar or fold the seat down and let them out the back. That child needs to be able to get out by themselves while I handle the reins if there's trouble!

Leia

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I have to say I've never personally driven a metal pipe cart (I presume "Frontier" is generic like saying coke for soda pop). Recently I introduced someone to driving and she bought a very nice driving hrose. She did not want to buy a Jerald, like mine, as it was too much money and she didn't want anything that heavy. She got the metal cart.

I have not driven it, but I've been the horse and the driver with the cart. I was surprised how unstable it felt after my Jerald. I worked with her, taking turns being horse and driver, so she could understand how the cart was balanced on the horse. She has no plans to daredevil and will probably be just fine in the cart. She is having a ball! She doesn't know any other cart (she drove my sulky before she got her own horse, not the Jerald).

But I will be aware of its limitations when we are out together and be careful about ditches or other obstacles on our drives. I'm glad this discussion came up. I had no idea there was such a difference.

I think there is one positive thing about the metal cart--no slouching or lounging will be tolerated. She is sitting correctly and very conscious of her body in that cart.

I'm going to study them tomorrow when she comes out to drive and think about the differences. I think the metal cart seat is higher, and the wheel base is narrower than mine.

 

[susanne]

Marcia, Frontier is not a generic term for a pipe cart. Those who say Frontier are specifically driving a Frontier brand cart.

While there are many flimsy, unbalanced pipe carts out there, Frontier and CTM make sturdy, well-balanced, easily adjustable carts and stand behind their products. I have heard that the G&S trail cart is also good, though I haven't tried it.

Without knowing which cart your friend has, it is difficult to comment, but it sounds like it is one of the "others."

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I have to say I've never personally driven a metal pipe cart (I presume "Frontier" is generic like saying coke for soda pop).

Nope.

As Susanne said, there are many TERRIBLE metal pipe carts out there so we're being very specific in recommending CTM and Frontier. There are probably other decent ones, but those are the two I have personal experience with. The others look the same but tend to be way heavier and poorly made.

I'm going to study them tomorrow when she comes out to drive and think about the differences. I think the metal cart seat is higher, and the wheel base is narrower than mine.

That's really the biggest problem with them, yes. Especially with two adults (as with a tandem) they are VERY top-heavy. They're much better with one small adult or an adult and a child.

Leia

 

[Marsha Cassada]

We had a great drive today. Her cart is working fine for her; she is just medium sized. It is from Mini Express. I intended to get some pictures, but by the time we got home, we were anxious to get the boys unhitched and we both forgot.

 

[RhineStone]

I have to say I've never personally driven a metal pipe cart. But I will be aware of its limitations when we are out together and be careful about ditches or other obstacles on our drives. I'm glad this discussion came up. I had no idea there was such a difference.

Hmmm, sounds like a certain gentleman I reported on this thread who had a major accident with a EE.....who people here blamed for his accident instead of the cart itself. If you don't know that EEs can be more unstable than other carts, how can you be blamed for not knowing the difference if you are an relatively experienced driver with other stable carts? Should EEs come with "caution" stickers, "Don't do stuff with this cart that you can with other carts"?

Would you blame Marsha for not knowing the difference if she got into a major accident had all this not come up?

Just something to consider, I really don't need a response. My "defensiveness" was mostly due to being upset for blaming the driver and defending the cart when I know there are people out there, like Marsha, who have no idea about its limitations.

Ok, I'll go back to my naughty chair again....

Myrna

 

[Margo_C-T]

I have indeed encountered numerous metal pipe EE carts that were HORRIBLE...heavy, unbalanced, uncomfortable for horse and driver. A man I taught(trained his horse, then him, basically),had PREVIOUSLY gone, as an absolute newbie, to a neighboring state and bought a cute little buckskin mare complete w/ pipe EE cart and harness. What he GOT was a load of trouble. The mare had some dangerous habits...was severely 'home-bound', really NOT 'trained' to drive at ALL...in fact, downright dangerous. The(homebuilt, I think) cart that came with her may well have been part of the problem; it was HORRIBLY heavy, unbalanced, had these thick steel plates as 'brakes'! I had him remove them; later, he brought that cart to use when we began to drive his other mare(the one I was training)...but it quickly became clear that THAT cart was CAUSING problems, and I told him to not bring it back--we'd use my Frontier brand...and suggested he NEVER use that sorry cart again. The problems vanished w/ that horrid cart, BTW. He didn't 'stick with' driving, so I don't know what he did with it; hopefully, he DIDN'T sell it to another newbie who had not done their homework, or didn't take someone knowledgeable along when 'shopping'.

I have only owned Frontier's pipe EE cart, but trusting the judgement and experiences of certain others who post here, I could also recommend CTM's brand. Yes, there may indeed be others, but in the weight range, etc., those two brands are the ONLY ones I could presently endorse---as the best of their type, for certain uses...(NOT as the 'best-for-EVERY-purpose carts out there'!)....as I've said before!

It is my opinion that if you are going to 'get into' something,it is your responsibility to do your homework WELL, and BEFORE you purchase. When price IS an object, as it must be for most of us, then solid research should provide the available options within your spending range, and also make clear the proper application/proper and expected uses, of all products in that, and all other, categories.

When I began driving my minis, choices were pretty darn limited. When I trained my first mare, I did it w/ a borrowed cart, a little wooden bodied, but pipe shafted, affair w/ no seat back, and it was NOT EE...this was at that time probably the most common type in use for 'everyday' driving of minis...and though it was commonly called a 'pleasure' cart, it was no pleasure to drive! The ONLY time I've ever been 'tipped out' of a cart was from THAT one, about 25 yrs ago, when my now-29 YO mare Melody shied leaving my arena, turning sharply when she encountered a fence, and tipped that thing up and me, out!(When I bought, the FIRST cart for me was a Frontier(which, BTW, has a website under their Brand Name(actually, it's Frontier Trading Post...and they've been building carts for many years!) THEN I went to the Jerald show carts(because I wanted to breed show)...and my cart decisions since have ALL been based on the range/kind of driving I most wanted to do.

Decide what kind of driving you intend to do, on what kind of terrain and 'underfoot' conditions, then at least start with, the best suited, best built, vehicle in your price range that can fairly be expected to perform as you need it to, WITHIN THE LIMITATIONS OF ITS TYPE AND CONSTRUCTION! (You wouldn't try to drive NASCAR in a Ford Fiesta, would you? Nice little vehicle, but not 'built for' THAT kind of use, right?)

If, like many have, you find that DRIVING VEHICLES are also a lot like potato chips, and you 'can't have just one',then again, do your homework/research BEFORE adding on. I personally have yet to see one single vehicle for miniatures that I see as totally suitable for EVERY possible purpose, so as many have, I have ended up w/ more than one cart! IMO, there will ALWAYS be a decent market for quality, well-cared-for, used driving vehicles, so buying the best quality/construction/performance reputation at the level you can afford, is almost always a worthwhile 'investment'. Again...do your homework, ask questions of those whose qualifications/experience to provide helpful information in their answers are clear...and then decide what is best for you in YOUR circumstances, before you spend your hard-earned money! Several here have shared their thoughtful process in making such choices, and it worked out quite well!

Margo

 

[hobbyhorse23]

BTW- someone mentioned that Frontier was going out of business? That's not quite the case but they are up for sale so hopefully whoever purchases it will maintain the made-in-America quality the product currently has. CTM was active a month ago but suddenly their phone lines are disconnected and they aren't answering emails, not sure what's up with that. I'm doing some digging to try and find out what happened and if they're still in business.

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

Does the ee cart really flip on a whim under "normal" driving circumstances? whoops, edited to say... don't answer that, I didn't mean to ask another question...

Thanks all for your input of all opinions at all levels, I really do appreciate it.

To answer that question which you have every right to be asking - NO they don't flip on a whim and I have MANY MANY miles in on easy entry carts, with many horses at various stages of training, to be able to give that answer quite succinctly. Yes they can flip but I have never met a cart yet that CAN'T even though some are harder to flip. It sounds to me that you have put a great deal of careful thought into whether or not to purchase an easy entry cart. I say "go for it!" It will be the perfect vehicle for your purpose - inexpensive and workable. I have 5 of them on my farm right at the moment and have had several others over the years that have just gotten plain worn out. As long as you keep in mind the limitations of the vehicle (and all vehicles do have their limitations) and drive it appropriately as several others have pointed out, they are great, perfect even, for the use you intend. To get back to your original question: I have several different makes of easy entry and the Frontier is a well built, very nice example of EE's.

 

[susanne]

Just a side note --

Good to see you, Lori -- long time, no post!

 

[shorthorsemom]

Does anybody have an ee cart made by pequea? In case the frontier is not available? I have to save in my jug a bit longer if I do get anything, so it would be a few months before I could consider anything, just starting to save now..... It may be forming up for a birthday/christmas present to myself however, after purchasing the aerocrown, I may need to wait a bit longer... LOL.

Thanks for posting. I really would not be buying this cart for anything more than a pony ride on the flat around a field. I have some nice flat plain paths cut around some cornfields here.

I want to get more experience driving and get my boy fitter first. I am unfortunately still having issues from my boy's overly short trim by my EX-farrier, and the resulting white line separation in his feet. He isn't lame, but the separation is wide enough to make me cautious to do much right now while we are trying to get things tightened up.... My new farrier is working hard to get my boys feet back in decent working condition... My aerocrown is sitting there under a tarp just looking pretty right now... I would be whining if it wasn't 100 degrees outside and unbearable working weather... I am hoping to get back out this weekend, wish me luck... I am trying a holostic type of liquid they gave me to put in the hole in his feet, it does seem to be making the feet look better very quickly... wish me luck, I really want to be driving..

Adair.

 

[Renee]

I have 2 Pequea EE carts. One with pipe shafts and pneumatic tires and the other all wood with wooden wheels. They are very well made and have a bit more legroom than my Frontier EE. They ride about the same.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Just a side note --

Good to see you, Lori -- long time, no post!

Nice to be here again Suzanne! It's been a busy few past months with a lot of showing, foals, advertising and my daughter home from school for the summer - just haven't had much time to play

Not so tough to take when I consider that my work is totally enjoyable!

 

[LazyRanch]

Not to open a can of worms here, but an update to my driving the EE cart more often:

I don't trail drive it very often - I trail and do most of my road work in my HyperBike. I am comfortable in it, it is uber reliable and stable on and off the road. PJ loves it, and we compete in it.

This year I have been showing Rascal in Pleasure. For that, I have to drive in the EE cart. I get an awful lot of razzing. They put the miniatures in a dressage ring for their pleasure class. I was trotting to warm up and let Rascal trot on. I got to a corner and turned. Much to my shock, the cart started to slide! My HyperBike NEVER slews like that, and I don't like that slithering feeling. I have now defense for EE carts - although I still maintain Frontier makes a solid product. I find myself being very careful how I drive it, however.

I do compete dressage and ADT in my 'Bike. Because PJ looks very TB or Standardbred, we rarely lose turnout points.

You all can defend your EE carts all you want to, but I haven't heard of other carts flipping as much as the EE, no matter what the brand. You can virtually chalk every accident up to driver error, but when you have to watch what you can do with a certain vehicle, that would be a red flag to me. What would be the driving limitations on say a Minicrown, a Smart Cart and the like properly put to an appropriate horse other than maybe Turnout points in a Pleasure show?

(What can't you do with it?)

Keep your EE, I really don't care.

The whole reason I even mentioned the accident was because it was a fresh story that someone had just told me and that cart was being discussed here. I thought maybe someone could learn something from it instead of getting all defensive.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

This year I have been showing Rascal in Pleasure. For that, I have to drive in the EE cart. I get an awful lot of razzing. They put the miniatures in a dressage ring for their pleasure class. I was trotting to warm up and let Rascal trot on. I got to a corner and turned. Much to my shock, the cart started to slide! My HyperBike NEVER slews like that, and I don't like that slithering feeling. I have now defense for EE carts - although I still maintain Frontier makes a solid product. I find myself being very careful how I drive it, however.

Interesting! My EE has never slid unless I intended it to but my Hyperbike does all the time. Guess it just depends on what footing you're in!

The Hyperbike wallows quite nicely in deep sand just like any other cart but flexes and bites in on most other footing as it's intended to. I haven't had a problem in the EE so far with my horses (disclaimer) in arenas or on grass. The only times I"ve gotten it to slide have been on sand.

Also a little bit off topic, but I just wanted to say that I've been quite pleased with the addition of a wider axle to my EE. I'm now using a CTM pony-sized axle on my Frontier mini cart with a fairly flat, wide-treaded tire and heavy duty puncture-proof tubes and while I haven't gotten to really test it due to driving a green horse and an injured horse, I'm happy with what I've felt so far. It definitely seems to have improved the lateral stability and I feel pretty solidly grounded behind even the pair.

Leia