23 replies to this topic

[Dairygirl]

I have learned a hard lesson today and need to find out more info on the RH Factor problem in horses. This happen with one of my APHA paint mares but was told it can happen with any breed. She foaled a big pretty filly yesterday and the foal was all white so I assumed a LWO foal. So I petted and did what I could for the foal all day. Well late she passed stool but the foal was getting weaker at this point so I realized this wasn't the problem. So my neighbor's aunt who is a vet came over to help me with the foal. She took some blood from the foal to test for this, mean time she tubed her and we give her some colosturms and milk from mom. After this she looks over and sees the blood had separated. Well this finished off the foal. With in the hour she died. She told me I would have this problem unless I found a stallion that she is compatable with. Well this info hitting me all at once with me beating myself up in my mind the whole time that I could have avoided all of this if I had just only known about testing the blood right off, so I only remember bits and pieces of what she said.

Now my question is I need more info. I know how the blood and the mothers milk doesn't mix. I just need to know what to test for or maybe if someone knows of a site that can better tell me how to find more info on how to get the right stud for her in the future.

This mare and I have had a hard road together and I'll never part with her. I can't ride so a riding mare is out. She had broken her skull last year to make this story short and I was told she wouldn't live or if she did she would have brain damage. So after a long road of keeping meds in her and treating her, she managed to carry this foal and keep it past all the months of meds she was on that I was told that she would loose the foal just from that only but didn't. This mare has beaten so many odds and now this. What a kick in the teeth.

Any advise would be appreciated.

[lyn_j]

The RH factor comes into play with humans when the mother is RH negative and the father is positive and the baby is positive.....the mothers body set up antibodies AGAINST the baby. With the horses, the mothers colostrum is what the foal cant have..... you would have to milk out the mare till past the colostrum period before letting the foal back on if the foal is positive. If you can test horses like people to find their blood type and RH only breed her to another RH negative stud because then the baby will also be the same type. Basically if the baby could have had a transfusion first, when you tubed the baby with the colostrum thats what did her in.
Silverwind has experience with this , She has a mare or had one that they had to be there when the foal was born to keep it from nursing. Maybe she will reply here.
Lyn

Edited by lyn_j, 30 April 2006 - 07:32 PM.

[Dairygirl]

Thanks for the info. Not too many people must know about this subject. My best advise is you better learn or you can end up being just like me and loose a life because you just didn't know.

Thanks for the response Lyn!

[Marnie]

I was looking for the place where I had this written down but can't locate it. But aren't you supposed to take a few drops of blood from the placenta and put it in some of the colostum and if it separates, the foal shouldn't have the colostrum. I admit, I never do it and I"m not sure these instructions are right. It seems most of the older breeders just don't come on the forum to much any more so it's sometimes hard to get some answers on serious problems.

[rabbitsfizz]

Isoerythrolysis.
Perhaps Mary Lou could put this in the "Best of..." section to save me writing it out every time.
Take some of the navel blood of the foal and mix it with the mares milk.
If they separate you need to muzzle the foal IMMEDIATELY.
It is ONLY the colostrum that the foal is incompatible with, but it is best to keep the foal off for 48 hours to be safe.
You will need the Vet to take blood from the mare to spin for antibodies or have a stash of frozen colostrum from a known compatible mare.
The foal will need to be tubed and fed hourly for 48 hours.
After this it can be let back onto the mare as normal (provided the Vet is OK with this.
The mare, obviously, has to be milked out.
This is more common than you think- what a shame you did not post earlier.
I am very sorry you lost the foal, very sorry, BUT.....
I have to say, though, you should not have been breeding an untested Paint mare to an untested Stallion, as LWO is very easily avoided, as is death from Isoerythrolysis.

[Miniv]

I'm so sorry you learned this lesson the heartbreaking way........

Yes, the test is to mix a few drops of blood from the cord, once the placenta has broken away, and add a few drops of mom's colostrum. If it seperates (curdles) you need to find a different source of colostrum for the foal.

Milk the mare out for up to 3 days before allowing the foal back on her. People will sometimes muzzle the foal during that time. When we had the situation arise for us, we kept the mare and foal together in a stall to insure bonding, but built a seperation between them with straw bales. We then hand fed the foal until the mare's regular milk came in.

When it happened to us, we realized something was wrong because each time the foal nursed she would become lethargic. It took only a couple of nursings to make us realize we needed to jump in there and take action.

Thank you for posting about your sad experience. Hopefully it will save another little one's life.

Blessings,
MA

[Dairygirl]

WEll I'm sorry to say not all of us have so much experience in everything like others. I'm new to the horse breeding by only 5 years and have learned a lot of things. I have NEVER had a problem like this. This was a first time baby for my mare and stud. Which will be their last together. You take risk breeding with any horse. You have one problem one way or the other. My mistake was assuming I had a LWO foal and not testing for the RH Factor right off the bat. I have now learned that lesson. Now all I can do is pass on my experiences to others so they can learn from what happen to me. I'm a responsible breeder and take very good care of my animals. If I had felt that my horses life or the foals life would have been in danger I wouldn't have bred them to start with. So I don't believe judging me for not testing all my horses for everything is the lesson learned but if it will make someone go out and spend the extra money to do so then I'm happy for them and wish them luck.

Hopefully this will help others to avoid future problems.

[lyn_j]

Dairygirl, speaking for myself, I wasnt judging you at all. Just trying to give you an answer. Most people would never think to check this. I wouldndt have either if my vet hand not suggested it years ago. He was doing it and I asked him why and he told me. Thats how I knew! I didnt realize that before and I am an RH negative mom who had to have rhogam when my kids were born!Lyn

[Christine]

some of us are arrogant in assuming that it is our need to inform others in what they should know or do if they breed their animals but with the backing of some other farms feel it their duty to bash others in the time of need. To teach others do you beat them with a stick or patiently and calmly show and talk to them to teach, I know if school teachers thought this way we would not have a lot of educated adults walking around. I have heard of this but like Lyn must admit I have not tested my mares either.

So you have bred this same mare and stallion before and this has not happened, did not know that could happen good to know.

[Dream]

Dairygirl,
I am very sorry for your loss. Putting the LWO issues aside...let's talk about the condtion that killed your baby.

Neonatal isoerythrolysis (NI) means destruction of the foal's own red blood cells. The disease is characterized by signs of acute anemia.

Let's start by eliminating the use of the term RH factor. That is a human term. Red blood cells can carry antigens (markers) on their surface which in part determines a horse's blood type. There are 8 different blood groups with 32 different possible markers. Qa and Aa are the markers most frequently implicated in NI. Horses can be Qa-, Qa+, Aa-, Aa+. Negative means the marker is not there, positive means it is.

During late pregnancy mares are exposed to the blood of the foals they are carrying through the placenta. If the mare is negative, bred to a stallion that is positive and carrying a foal that got that + antigen from the sire her body will recognize these blood cells as "foreign" and start to form antibodies to kill the "foreigners" off. This will not affect the foal she is currently carrying but these antibodies will be with her for life. In subsequent pregnancies she could have an NI foal.

The following things are required for an NI foal...

1. The mare must have the antibodies to the antigen carried by the stallion (she has been sensitized to his blood type).
2. The foal must inherit the stallion's blood antigen.

If these 2 things happen then the foal will ingest colostrum containing antibodies to its own red blood cells. When it nurses and these antibodies are absorbed into its bloodstream the antibodies will proceed to attack and kill the foal's red blood cells leading to anemia.

Therefore every negative mare is at risk for producing an NI foal. Stallions must be tested to see if they are positive for any of the markers. Maiden mares are unlikely to have NI foals (unless they have received a blood transfusion in the past) because they need to have been pregnant before to have formed antibodies. NI is more common in mule foals because donkeys all carry a factor that is foreign to horses. Many breeders will cross negative mares with positive stallions because it's a breeding they really want. They must be sure to be present at birth to determine if the foal must be prevented from nursing. Don't forget that even with this cross there is a chance that the foal will inherit the mare's blood type and be fine.

Clinical signs in NI foals can appear from 5 hours to 5 days of age and vary depending on the severity and rapisity of onset of anemia. Signs can range from increased resp rate and lethargy to pale, yellow mucous membranes, increased heart rate, depression anorexia and collapse.

Treatment ranges from supportive care to repeated blood transfusions again depending on severity of anemia.
I hope you find this information helpful.