28 replies to this topic

[Renolizzie]

I am new to driving. I took a number of lessons for mini horse driving and haven't been able to get back with the trainer for awhile. I bought a mini with help from the trainer. He is a nice horse who doesn't kick or bite. Ten year old gelding who was trained by the previous owner to drive. We seem to do fine on the road most of the time but I have had a few times when things were not going smoothly.

I am concerned that whoa is seeming to equal jumping around in the harness instead of stop and don't move. Also, we are having trouble with turns. Not most of the time, just a few times. I am walking him around the neighborhood and basically teaching him to whoa and stay until I say walk. That seems to be working.


I live in the boonies and haven't been able to get someone out here to help me. I think I can work this through if I can get some advice along the way.

I am thinking that making sure he isn't spooky [which he mostly isn't] by working with walking him on the road so he can hear cars and such would be good. And other types of training like that.

I am definitely making a tire drag from a Toyota [small] tire so I can walk behind him with that until we get on the same page with whoa and reining. I don't know that it is all the little guy's fault because I am new. We have had some fabulous days out on the road and I have loved going out. I think that if we stepped back for a bit and tried this it might be good. What do you think?

[Renolizzie]

Okay, I talked to one of the people in my area that does mini horse cart driving and she thinks that I should just keep going with the little guy pulling the cart but when he doesn't want to whoa properly to make him move forwards and not let him "get way with" his bad behavior.

She says that once her horses are pulling a cart she doesn't go backwards in training, basically. And, I will say that most of the time the little horse and I are doing quite well on the roads around here. There isn't much traffic and people can see you from a long ways away.

He maybe is trying to test me a bit to see if he can get away with being a bad little horse:) He has been trying to eat grass while I am walking him and I have to be firm to say no. Also, when leading him he wants to get ahead of me so I have been turning around so he has to pay attention and stay by me. I think that is working. Also, I am working on whoa while walking him on a lead rope and he seems to be doing better about stopping and not moving since I am making him go back to where he started and trying again.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

I think I am just having a totally insecure moment.

[happy appy]

I believe in going back in training if there is something that the horse isn't getting. Whoa would be a reason for me. I want a horse to stand when asked.

[Renolizzie]

I believe in going back in training if there is something that the horse isn't getting. Whoa would be a reason for me. I want a horse to stand when asked.

That is sort of what I am thinking. I really would like whoa to mean whoa and not maybe I'll jiggle around and step backwards and be fussy. I don't mind taking the time to learn and teach the little guy. I love working with him even if we aren't driving that day. I don't think it is a set back to go back a step or two. I wasn't there when the horse was trained so I don't know what the previous owner thought was acceptable on a whoa and I think I need to work with the little guy so we are on the same page maybe.

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

My SIL has been having a similar problem with her young gelding. He is green but has been in harness long enough to know 'whoa' and was ground driven for long enough to really get a good understanding of rein cues etc. My advice to you is the same as my advice to her, if you want the horse to stop and stand and they have a habit of fidgiting and trying to walk off, back up, leap forward ...whatever, then keep them going forward until they are tired and want to stop. Don't (initially) ask for a whoa when they are fresh and wanting to move out. Keep them working until they seem to be a bit tired then ask for a whoa. At first just a 10 second whoa is OK, try to ask them to move off again before they break from the stand and gradually increase the time you ask them to stand still. I find it is harder (mostly) to get a horse to move out well and with energy than it is to get them to stand and relax so in the beginning I encourage forward movement as much as possible, I do want it to be my idea tho so try to make it seem that way to the horse. My opinion on backing up a step is, it can never hurt to refresh an old lesson so if he is really antsy about whoa and it is making you uncomfortable then go back to ground work for a couple of day to reinforce the lesson he should be solid on already. You can never tell what part of his training was glossed over because he seemed to get it at the time.When I get a new horse I always treat them as untrained at first. In hand work followed by ground driving and eventually hitching just like I would any horse who wasn't trained yet. If they know their stuff well we'll move along quickly and if not i won't get any unpleasant surprises. Either way I reinforce my authority and leadership and we have a better partnership.

[Sue_C.]

I guess I am always going "backwards". LOL! I don't consider ground work to be ONLY for green horses. I regularly use it to REFRESH their minds...and in your horse's case, it is very likely something that wasn't done properly to begin with...or he would BE standing still. So many people get too bored with ground work, and throw a horse into the shafts because of it; and this is a disservice to the horse, as it completely passes by a very important part of their basic training.

Myself...I love ground driving, and I take them everywhere, expose them to as much as possible, and stand still with them...a LOT! Personally...I will not even put a horse to cart unless they WILL stand like a statue FIRST.

[Renolizzie]

My advice to you is the same as my advice to her, if you want the horse to stop and stand and they have a habit of fidgiting and trying to walk off, back up, leap forward ...whatever, then keep them going forward until they are tired and want to stop. Don't (initially) ask for a whoa when they are fresh and wanting to move out. Keep them working until they seem to be a bit tired then ask for a whoa. At first just a 10 second whoa is OK, try to ask them to move off again before they break from the stand and gradually increase the time you ask them to stand still. I find it is harder (mostly) to get a horse to move out well and with energy than it is to get them to stand and relax so in the beginning I encourage forward movement as much as possible, I do want it to be my idea tho so try to make it seem that way to the horse. My opinion on backing up a step is, it can never hurt to refresh an old lesson so if he is really antsy about whoa and it is making you uncomfortable then go back to ground work for a couple of day to reinforce the lesson he should be solid on already. You can never tell what part of his training was glossed over because he seemed to get it at the time.When I get a new horse I always treat them as untrained at first. In hand work followed by ground driving and eventually hitching just like I would any horse who wasn't trained yet. If they know their stuff well we'll move along quickly and if not i won't get any unpleasant surprises. Either way I reinforce my authority and leadership and we have a better partnership.

Thanks for the thoughts. I will try this when we go out again. He generally gets a little anxious to be trotting right away when we go out. I try to get him to walk for a few minutes to get him warmed up. Maybe I need to learn how to lunge him to warm him up and then just let him trot as soon as possible when we get out on the road?

[Renolizzie]

I guess I am always going "backwards". LOL! I don't consider ground work to be ONLY for green horses. I regularly use it to REFRESH their minds...and in your horse's case, it is very likely something that wasn't done properly to begin with...or he would BE standing still. So many people get too bored with ground work, and throw a horse into the shafts because of it; and this is a disservice to the horse, as it completely passes by a very important part of their basic training.

Myself...I love ground driving, and I take them everywhere, expose them to as much as possible, and stand still with them...a LOT! Personally...I will not even put a horse to cart unless they WILL stand like a statue FIRST.

I like the little guy and spending time with him. When I first got him we did walking around the neighborhood, then long line but he wanted to get out and get moving so I hooked him up to the cart with Hubby as a header a couple of times, then I hooked him up and we went out on our own. He is actually doing good. He likes trotting. I want to see if I can get him to be more comfortable with cars passing him [motorcycles and trucks with rattling trailers kind of make him shy sometimes] and I would like him to whoa and not fuss.

[Performancemini]

Reignmaker's advice is solid (and I am going to use it myself on a horse with the same problem-especially since he doesn't like to stand once they start announcing awards in the show arena!). We have a friend that drives Draft horses. He says that the most important training of all is "whoa" and standing-standing-standing, also just walking, walking, walking. I respect that from him as he is handling a team of horses of what - one ton or so of horseflesh?!!! Another trainer of Morgan horses uses ground training all the time for all ages and levels of her horses. She says all of them need a refresher of the basics occasionally. So, backing up is OK!

[shorthorsemom]

Backing up and retraining for a more solid response is great. Whoa is the most important "gait". If you are green you may be signalling something that is confusing him without knowing it. My trainer gets on me about maintaining contact on my outside rein in a turn. When I forget, my guy gets buggy on his turns. In other words, I am causing the confusion in my hands and he is responding. Also, on halts, when I was very green and would forget to "give" when my boy did his halt, my boys response was to jig around and not stand quietly... again, training of me. I still work with a trainer, there is so much to learn.
On the topic of work them until they are tired... there is one drawback I remember my trainer telling me... she said that you can work a horse until tired, but if you have a horse that is unstable in certain areas, what you get is a horse that is fit and strong and able to fight you longer.. she told me to separate each training issue into a compartment and work on that... My proper trained hands, equaled good stands... etc. Hope this helps. I knew it was me because when my trainer drove my boy, he was awesome, and when I drove he was trying to get away with things and even looked like he needed training when in fact he was a very sensitive boy that was excellent at picking up my mis-cues and poor signals. We get training whenever I can get her out, can't beat having somebody experienced work with you. best wishes. PS, I do a lot of time on my feet when I my trainer is too busy to come, helps build a great relationship with my boy.