Ideas to help a stallion drop?????

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even though i never intend to own a stallion (or mare, for that matter), i find this discussion fascinating.

when testicles are retained, does that not render the horse infertile? the way i understand it, sperm cannot live at the higher body temperature that would be present if testicles are retained. be that as it may, even though the horse would be infertile, would he not still exhibit stud-like behavior?
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A stallion that is fully retained can have a not so nice disposition to it. I am not saying it is the case with all of them, but it is the case with alot of them. I would think that it would render them infertile, but then again I am sure there are those that can attest to a freak occurance. As far as a stallion that is partially dropped or drops very late in life, it is not a desirable trait to want that as part of a breeding program.

I know of a full size horse that was/is partially retained, and he has alot of the stallion traits to him. It took me a long time to find the humor in his name, it just never clicked :DOH! "High Ball"

He was gelded later in life, but I don't know if it was done correctly/completely.
 
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Yep, once the ring closes, you are stuck. No hormonal shots are going to make it/them drop down through that and show up.

I agree with the comment also that Minis are NOT 'late bloomers'. Our full sized horses usually didnt drop til late yearling or the spring of their 2 yr old year is usually when we gelded. (Not to say they couldnt have been done earlier, but this seemed a good time) Full sized horses are known to continue growing and filling out til 7 years of age- we did not start breaking them til 2 1/2 (actual riding) and it was kept VERY light- just teaching some basics til they were three. None of our horses were started on competition work for speed events and all til they were at LEAST five. They stayed sound.

Most Minis appear to be fairly matured at three or at the latest, four.
 
This is very heartbreaking to read because I must say I am in this boat.
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My stallion, Blue, is 20 months now and from what I can tell he has not dropped. If his boys are up inside I know I can't find them. I know there is no way I want to give him back but there's no way I can afford to have him gelded as a crypt or a monorchid stallion. The breeder is a great friend of mine so I am sure I can contact her and talk with her about other options but I don't want to him to go back to her. So what do you do in my case
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.... I knew I wasn't the only one out there who had this problem I suppose but I must say I bought him a as breeding stallion as well to breed to my mare. I suppose that won't happen.
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I too thought he was the one to start my herd.

Gee what depressing news
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We once rescued a stallion who had not dropped by 3 years old.

He was later moved to an area that was next to my cycling mares durring the summer..

He finally dropped 2-3 months later -both testicals, but one at a time.

And by the time his new owners picked him up, they were pleased that the surgury to geld him would be less costly than one that had them retained.
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I strongly agree with the rest that this is a problem we created ourselves by using late dropping stallions as herd sires. Miniature horses should be held to the same standard as any other horse. All of the colts born here were dropped at birth and then ready to geld by 6 months. When my vet came last spring to geld cody he was just shocked that he was dropped. He had been told by so many miniature horse breeders that minis dont drop till 2 or 3 that even he bought into it.

I have seen Miniatures drop spring of their second year and I have heard of them dropping at 5. But for me that late dropping would exclude them from being herd sires.

I know many breeders write in their contracts must be dropped by 3. Ughh. By 3 you have waited years and maybe even put money into showing that horse and then send it back?? Its heartbreaking!
 
I agree with KayKay... this appears to be something genetic and the more that people hold onto waiting, or breeding those colts that drop late, drop one late, or never drop at all... makes it worse and worse for people buying those colts.

I've been lucky that I've never had a colt NOT drop. Most you can feel testes the day they are born, and although they can "suck them up" when they are stressed, after working, or feel cold hands, they are still "there" if you grope around long enough. My colts are used to me groping them almost weekly down there, not only to make sure he has "two" but to handle the sheath area because being nice while I clean their sheath as geldings or stallions is important.

My current colt had HUGE ones as a weanling and they never went away. He is a shetland pony, but minis of course came from the shetlands so I wouldn't imagine it would be much different. And SOME minis have quite large "ones" anyway!

I'm sorry for everyone who has had to deal with this... perhaps we can all learn and really try to put a guarantee in our contracts?

Andrea
 
I agree kay kay. Don't use them if they are late in dropping.

What worries me more than selling a colt to someone for breeding that doesn't drop by at the very latest 2, are all these colt that I sell or give to kids for 4 H projects or just pets. What are they going to do with a horney little 2 or 3 year old colt until it does drop. And most of these kids do not have the money to do surgery. You can bet they are not going to give me a good reference.

Also, in my opinion anyone that buys a baby for a potential stallion material is a gambler (I have done it). Sometimes you win, most of time you lose.

We will bend over backward to back our customers. I have replaced horses three times because they didn't get enough BLUES or there was a PERSONALITY confict, whatever. But, this guarantee thing has gotten out of hand. There are no guarantees in farming and that is what the horse business is-a big fat farming gamble.
 
This is very heartbreaking to read because I must say I am in this boat.
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My stallion, Blue, is 20 months now and from what I can tell he has not dropped. If his boys are up inside I know I can't find them. I know there is no way I want to give him back but there's no way I can afford to have him gelded as a crypt or a monorchid stallion. The breeder is a great friend of mine so I am sure I can contact her and talk with her about other options but I don't want to him to go back to her. So what do you do in my case
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.... I knew I wasn't the only one out there who had this problem I suppose but I must say I bought him a as breeding stallion as well to breed to my mare. I suppose that won't happen.
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I too thought he was the one to start my herd.

Gee what depressing news
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[size=6]I partially feel better hearing from all of you, but it also depresses me to see how many of you are in the boat with me. I'm just hoping and praying that he has dropped since the time I had him vet checked. Which was back last spring. He was barely 2, I believe. I'm not quite sure when I took him. He isn't quite 3 yet. I'm with you above. Do you make a "business" decision and send him back (that is, if they even agree to it), or do you spend money, you really don't have, to have the surgery????[/size]
 
. . . Do you make a "business" decision and send him back (that is, if they even agree to it), or do you spend money, you really don't have, to have the surgery????[/size][/b]
My first priority is a business decision. What is good for the breed, in the long run is good for me. I would NOT wait until he was 3 or 4 (or more) and say, "Oh Great! He has descended now. I will use him for breeding." That is perpetuating the problem. Not good business or good for the breed.

Emotional attachment would be a secondary priority. If I "loved" the horse and had the facilities to keep him separated from others and the condition was not an immediate danger to himself or others, I would wait to see if they would eventually drop and he could be gelded more easily/economically.

IF the condition presented a health problem to the horse or to others (as in being dangerous to handle), and I could not financially afford the surgery, I would either a.)give him to someone who had the resources to have the surgery done, or b.)have him humanely put down.

Most of all, I agree with others above and would NOT knowingly use a horse for breeding if he was a late dropper.
 
Emotional attachment is more of a priority to me. I do have the means to seperate him to see if they do drop to see if I could save myself some money. Because I too am all about bettering the breed also. So gelding a horse who could cause problems later doesn't bother me. I am just disappointed that I spent all the money on the horse and now will spend alot more to have him gelded. Its not so much of a business choice though for me atleast.
 
One of our stallions didn't drop the second testicle until he was 4. The one seemed to be always present, had my regular vet check him and he couldn't find the other one, took him to Lexington, KY had a equine vet check him and he started him on the hormone shots, don't know if they helped or not because it was 1 year later before he dropped. I kept him stalled next to mares and turned out next to mares in hopes that this would help to stimulate things. He has sired one colt and at 2 (young 2 year old) he has both. I had pretty much lost hope, but was optimistic because he didn't present any other crypto characteristics that I was warned about. Good Luck
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