Wolves and Bears and Guns, Oh My!

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AngC

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My topic was supposed to be:

Wolves and Bears and Guns, Oh My! (but I finger-fumbled it and hit enter by mistake.)

So... I was reading that a half dozen of the reintroduced wolves have been spotted in Northern California. Good. I hope they wander on down to San Francisco and eat a couple lap-dogs or cats or some such. Anyway, reading about the wolves inspired me to check out the status of the grizzly bear reintroduction.

Here in Washington state, they want to reintroduce grizzlies. I think grizzly bears are pretty nifty. I just don't want them around our little horses (or me, for that matter.) I gotta' admit I'm a little nervous, because they want to reintroduce the cute little bears in the North Cascade mountains. I live in the foothills. It's not clear precisely where they're going to reintroduce the bears; hopefully further north. And I guess I shouldn't be nervous, because somehow they're only going to pick bears with "good" temperaments (???) And surely the bears will stay where they're released.

Chris Servheen (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service) says that "They're very inefficient predators" and that "...grizzly bears eat grass, berries, insects and the meat of dead animals. They are not good hunters." I guess he didn't read that article at the National Park Services website that says: "...mostly elk and bison, comprise a substantial portion of a grizzly bear's diet. Grizzly bears feed on ungulates primarily as winter-killed and wolf-killed carrion but also through predation on elk calves..." and "...male grizzly bears also prey on adult bison during early spring."

Now I probably don't know nothing about nothing, but I've seen a peaceful adult bison in a pen on the reservation near Moise, MT and that animal was formidable. ...I wouldn't want to tick him off.

So to work in the "guns" part of my topic. So for all those liberals (like for instance the ones down there in Seattle, that have a freak fit if a measly coyote wanders through their neighborhood) that don't want me to have any firearms, I have a really great idea.... instead of reintroducing the grizzlies into the Cascades, I think they should set all those nice, friendly bears loose in downtown Seattle. Then they could pay their 5 cent per bullet tax and work on their aim or perhaps just give the nice bears a big hug.

...end of rant.

oh, except I forgot to mention that your National Park Service is spending a half a million dollars-plus to study this issue.
 
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What would you do if a spider came into your home and built a giant spiderweb. How dare that spider come into your home and make a home for himself. You would kill the spider and take down the web. Think about it. The bear and the wolf lived on all that land and called it home way before humans decided to take it away and make it theirs. If you feel threatened then you have the right to protect yourself and your lifestock, I've done it. I just feel that we need to share this world with all that was created.
 
What would you do if a spider came into your home and built a giant spiderweb. How dare that spider come into your home and make a home for himself. You would kill the spider and take down the web. Think about it. The bear and the wolf lived on all that land and called it home way before humans decided to take it away and make it theirs. If you feel threatened then you have the right to protect yourself and your lifestock, I've done it. I just feel that we need to share this world with all that was created.
hmmm... food for thought.

BUT, the world has changed. There's a whole bunch of people living in the animals' prior habitat.

And what has me "butt-hurt" is that people who live in urban areas want to impose their stupidity on me. My interpretation is that the city-slickers want me to have grizzlies, wolves, other dangerous animals, etc. without the means to protect myself. [i hope that I wouldn't panic and take such an animals' life needlessly] but I hugely resent some city dweller telling me that I shouldn't have a fire-arm to protect myself should the need arise. That's the message I receive from urbanites, like those folks in Seattle with their gun and ammo tax. I can think of no other motivation for Seattle's tax on firearms' purchases and ammo ( 5-cents per bullet; 2-cents on 22 rounds; ...I wonder whether they're going to tax rocks for slingshots? )

By the way, I squish spiders; my husband has a really pronounced spider scary-fetish.
 
Think about it... some of the most highly settled and populated areas were settled because game was plentiful in that area, so many large cities are smack dab in the middle of what was once prime animal habitat. How about you move and let the animals reclaim their habitat.
 
Too bad we can't find a way to live together. Too bad, humans are on the top of the chain of command. Where I live in NYS, there are no big cats, we have black bears and some wondering Moose and an occasional Big Foot sighting but the rest were killed off. I could handle the cats and wolves and less murderers and rapists. We do more harm than all the animal population combined. I don't care if you hunt for food and to protect your livestock, that is your right. Just don't kill for the fun of it and to see the head on your wall. What do you do to the people who torture animals for the fun of it? If they set one of your minis on fire or gave your dog a firecracker before it blew up, would you want to shoot to kill or do you save your bullets for 4 legged critters who are doing what is natural. But that said, I wouldn't want to find a grizzlie knocking on my door either.
 
Think about it... some of the most highly settled and populated areas were settled because game was plentiful in that area, so many large cities are smack dab in the middle of what was once prime animal habitat. How about you move and let the animals reclaim their habitat.
uhhh, I think Seattle was settled for timber (mostly gone now) and more importantly... its port. (I suspect game was an extraneous food source.)

Your suggestion that I move and let the animals reclaim their habitat seems like a sucky idea to me. I spent my whole life saving up to buy a house ... silly me: that American dream thing. Now I should sell (hopefully not at a loss) because why? ...I'm baffled.
 
They pretty much did the same thing in the UP of MI...reintroduced the wolf and then folks from the big cities down south, got all p.o.ed when people up there had to protect themselves from the increasing numbers. They had to open a season because said wolves were depleting the whitetail herds up there, then the city people really had a fit. Thankfully here gun control is not that big of an issue, many here survive on what they hunt. Open carry is legal here and getting a concealed permit is not the difficult...right now, anyways.
 
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uhhh, I think Seattle was settled for timber (mostly gone now) and more importantly... its port. (I suspect game was an extraneous food source.)Your suggestion that I move and let the animals reclaim their habitat seems like a sucky idea to me. I spent my whole life saving up to buy a house ... silly me: that American dream thing. Now I should sell (hopefully not at a loss) because why? ...I'm baffled.
Not any different than people expecting us to move because we are more rural, and let the animals have the land. And many seem to feel that way
 
My pet peeve are the city people who move into the country then complain about the smelly cows. This happened after 9/11, they bought everything in sight and the prices went up. After awhile they got sick of being in the sticks and moved back to the city. They were like the people who move next to an airport then complain about the noisy planes flying overhead. Go figure.
 
My pet peeve are the city people who move into the country then complain about the smelly cows. This happened after 9/11, they bought everything in sight and the prices went up. After awhile they got sick of being in the sticks and moved back to the city. They were like the people who move next to an airport then complain about the noisy planes flying overhead. Go figure.
Or, if they don't move back to the city, they sue that smelly dairy that's been there for 3 generations or maybe more, and win.
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:arg!
 
My pet peeve are the city people who move into the country then complain about the smelly cows. This happened after 9/11, they bought everything in sight and the prices went up. After awhile they got sick of being in the sticks and moved back to the city. They were like the people who move next to an airport then complain about the noisy planes flying overhead. Go figure.
Don't know what happened to my first post, the computer ate it...
Or, they stay and sue the dairy that's been there for 3 generations or more and win.
 
Not any different than people expecting us to move because we are more rural, and let the animals have the land. And many seem to feel that way
uhhh, I interpreted your response that way... i.e., I should get my dumb human butt out of the animals' territory.

Because of where you live, I would be interested in whether you have a concern with wolves or grizzlies, etc. I speculate that you're much more likely to have a grizzly snooping around your animals than I am.
 
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uhhh, I interpreted your response that way... i.e., I should get my dumb human butt out of the animals' territory.

Because of where you live, I would be interested in whether you have a concern with wolves or grizzlies, etc. I speculate that you're much more likely to have a grizzly snooping around your animals than I am.
No grizzly in this part of the state, but lots of coyotes, a few wolf sitings and a few cougar sitings. [A few years ago, there were horses lost to a cougar about 75 miles south of here.]
 
I was talking to a friend of mine who lives in the more northern part of MD and he was saying the wolves they released across the canal years ago were starting to over populate and were now crossing the river heading north. Little back story, Im not sure how many years ago but since the deer population was getting out of control they thought it would be a good idea to release a coyote population to cut down on the deer population, well that back fired and the coyote population started multiplying faster then they thought. So then someone had the bright idea of releasing wolves to cut down on the coyote population so now they are having problem with the wolves over populating and now swimming across the canal towards Delaware and northern MD.

A mini owner I know in that area of MD where the wolves were release she had to round up all the outside minis and keep them in the sections close to the barn at night and they noticed their stallions were on high alert more than usual and always looking down towards the woods that line the back of their property. Luckily there has been no incidents.

I think they should have controlled the deer population by allowing more or extended hunting seasons for that one year or how ever many it took instead of releasing a new species to that area.
 
No grizzly in this part of the state, but lots of coyotes, a few wolf sitings and a few cougar sitings. [A few years ago, there were horses lost to a cougar about 75 miles south of here.]
Just heard today, that someone lost a horse to a cougar about 20 miles from here, recently. Minimal details, so don't know more than that at this time.
 
The thing that offended me on the grizzly reintroduction plan was the information presented by grizzly "experts" purporting these bears as some sort of cute, furry animal that eats nuts and berries, and sounds like you should have a couple wandering around in PETCO or something (I made up the PETCO part.) Yet many of the people that commented during the "open" period don't live here and wouldn't have to deal with them. I potentially could have to deal with them and pick up the bloody horse pieces. That really offends me. ...especially when the urbanites' message seems to include a directive that I not have a defensive implement ...like a gun.

Add to it, when we first acquired mini horses, a coyote wandered through the pasture. The husband was "raring to go" with a firearm to protect the horses. I encouraged him to stop and watch; which we did. We decided that the coyote threat wasn't immediate, unless there was a whole pack of them. So now we sleep with the window open (at that time of year) and leave the horses out. I've opted out of things like having chickens (or ducks; I would love a couple ducks) to reduce potential coyote problems. I also decided to risk the cougar risk. There was an attack down in Kent, WA; the cougar ripped the throat out of a full-size horse. I don't know; I think Coco would put up a fight for the money, but... I suspect she would be toast if confronted with a large cat.

Anyway, since then, I've heard on the local news when people are upset if a coyote wanders through their city neighborhoods. And these are the same people (or a subset thereof) that want to loose those cute grizzly bears in an area that is a bit too close to me. Perhaps I shouldn't worry about it. But I sure do hate when the grizzly bear "experts" essentially lie about the danger these animals can present.

Edited for spelling errors. ....
 
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Maybe the toilet paper commercials with the bear family living like people inside a cozy home pulled at their heartstrings...soft propaganda in story book way. Stay safe. I could handle having to watch out for dangerous critters in exchange for getting to live in a private and secluded area, as long as I keep the right to defend what is mine. Likely I am going to end up in the Ozarks (again).
 
I've opted out of things like having chickens (or ducks; I would love a couple ducks) to reduce potential coyote problems.
This is one reason why I've opted out of chickens or ducks, don't need a coyote dinner bell in the yard. My in-laws have chickens at there place 2 miles north, but they coop them at night and use electric mesh during the day and don't have small livestock to worry about. Don't think my FILs Percherons would be too worried about a coyote.
 
This is one reason why I've opted out of chickens or ducks, don't need a coyote dinner bell in the yard. My in-laws have chickens at there place 2 miles north, but they coop them at night and use electric mesh during the day and don't have small livestock to worry about. Don't think my FILs Percherons would be too worried about a coyote.
I've heard the coyotes take out chickens... There's some folks (half mile or so from here) that have fighting cocks--at least I think that's what they are---can't imagine why else someone would have so many roosters. They leave them roaming around; you can hear the coyote pack howling and then the noise when the chicken goes down. One lady had them take out her small dog last summer.

So yeah, I don't chum for coyotes with poultry. I also don't want to shoot unless I feel it's a genuine threat. To date, I don't feel they're a threat to our little horses. I don't know, I could be whining on this forum tomorrow about a coyote fatality. I just don't see it right now, based on my observations of when coyotes have wandered through our pastures. Nicky pays more attention to small dogs than coyotes.
 
We have had a coy dog problem in this area in the past. For that reason our horses are kept close to the house with a light on.
 

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