I need a genetics guru- max white sabino

Hi all- Im new up here. we have been breeding minis for about 8 years as a small hobby. trained to pull carts, birthday parties, and pets.

We have decided to breed some for show for ourselves, and we are purchasing a registered max white mini sabino colt...tested homozygous by UC Davis..to use as a stud in the future and as a show prospect.

I havent figured out how he came out max white... the sire is a black and white homozygous stallion, and the mare at birth was a buckskin frame overo- (she now appears bay-white) the grandsire on the topside was also a homozygous blk/white tobiano and the grandsire on the bottom was a smokey black frame overo. he tested + for LWOS- ( i beleive has no correlation to sabino if i am correct)

my way of thinking is... if the sire is homozygous for black and tobiano...how is the colt snow white with blue eyes and pink skin?? id just befuzzles me... would he be homozygous for sabino and the tobiano pattern also? thanks all!

He could be Splash.

I have a white colt out/ by two black pintos. Both carry Splash and he came out all white. He is a Max Splash with blue eyes.

There is not yet a test for Splash but it's easy to see Splash as a pattern on pintos that carry several patterns or is just Splash.



Welcome to the forum!

REO said:

He could be Splash.

I have a white colt out/ by two black pintos. Both carry Splash and he came out all white. He is a Max Splash with blue eyes.

There is not yet a test for Splash but it's easy to see Splash as a pattern on pintos that carry several patterns or is just Splash.

Welcome to the forum!

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Thanks!! what colors could he produce? would it be like a cremello and the dilute genes or totally different? Your minis are gorgeous-especially pooka....love the drastic color change...lol

He has been tested homozygous for sabino? Did he have tobiano and lwo tests done as well? If I read correctly and he is tested homozygous for sabino then he easily could have received them from his sire and dam. Sabino comes in a few different forms and it is very prevalent, especially with tobiano and frame. He could be splash too and tobiano and frame. I would send in more tests if those haven't been tested for yet. Just because he's homozygous for one pattern doesn't mean he can't have others.

Congrats on your new purchase by the way! where are the pictures?!

Your fellow also might appear white, but genetically be black. We see this occasionally in Gypsies.

Lizzie

Thanks! I love my Pooka too!

Splash is a pattern. Colors are different. A max Sabino or Splash can be any color. Like my white colt. He is really a black pinto (Pooka's full brother!) He has one dot of black in his tail and a tiny dot of black on his front cannon bone.

There are different types of Sabino. So even if a horse tests pos. or even neg for one, doesn't mean they can't have one of the other Sabino patterns. They only have a test so far for one. (I think)

I believe Reo, they actually have tests for many types of Sabino. However, only Sabino 1 is offered. This because it would be cost prohibitive for most to test for all. Also, it is thought that many Sabino types thought to be known, may actually not be.

Lizzie

If the sire is black and white homozygous for tobiano, then your colt is also tobiano in addition to being sabino. I have a mare like that. She is tobiano as her sire is homozygous for tobiano, but also carries splashed white and possibly sabino. She is solid white except for a few black hairs in her tail. She is lab tested to be black. Redrock Just Magic. Her sire is approx 50% color (chestnut pinto in my avatar) and her dam is solid black with a bald face.

Is your colt tested for LWO?

Becky said:

If the sire is black and white homozygous for tobiano, then your colt is also tobiano in addition to being sabino. I have a mare like that. She is tobiano as her sire is homozygous for tobiano, but also carries splashed white and possibly sabino. She is solid white except for a few black hairs in her tail. She is lab tested to be black. Redrock Just Magic. Her sire is approx 50% color (chestnut pinto in my avatar) and her dam is solid black with a bald face.

Is your colt tested for LWO?

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I know nothing about color... just posting to say... wow Becky your mare is gorgeous, nobody can ever say that white is a boring color... .

Outstanding and always amazed at how gorgeous miniature horses can be. PS, I also oogle REO's Pooka. wow again.

Becky said:

If the sire is black and white homozygous for tobiano, then your colt is also tobiano in addition to being sabino. I have a mare like that. She is tobiano as her sire is homozygous for tobiano, but also carries splashed white and possibly sabino. She is solid white except for a few black hairs in her tail. She is lab tested to be black. Redrock Just Magic. Her sire is approx 50% color (chestnut pinto in my avatar) and her dam is solid black with a bald face.

Is your colt tested for LWO?

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I know he has tested homozygous for max white sabino. I am going to meet the breeders in a few hours to ask questions about what he was tested for.he is 3 weeks old now. The breeders dont understand it either. lol.. his grandsire CSF Kenny Rogers did test positive for LWO by what i have seen on the internet.

here is mom and mo

It is common to get a maximum white foal when you have several different pinto patterns involved especially when you cross tobiano and overo. You stated your colt has tobiano, frame overo and probably has a little splash thrown in as well. The maximum white comes out when all patterns are expressed and "overlay" themselves bringing out the white.

i went out to see him today, and found out he has a tobiano gene and the sabino gene....either way..he will produce white...correct??does that mean that the mare determines the color if all he throws is either tobiano or white?? im confused. He has an awesome build on him, and the cutest little booty youd ever seen...lol.....

He has those pinto genes to pass on, but the question is--to what extent will he pass them on? You won't necessarily get a foal with a lot of white...or one may be a loud pinto, the next may have nothing more than a star, a snip and a couple of white legs, or one may have nothing but a few white hairs on its face. I crossed two loud sabino pintos and the resulting foal is a solid chestnut with a star and narrow strip. I have a loud pinto who got all of her color from her sire--and he is a solit chestnut with a couple of socks and I think some white on his face (would have to look at his photos again to check just what he's got for white)

As for what colors any foals off your colt may be--that depends on what his base color is under that white--his sire is a black and his mother a buckskin. So--your guy could be black, or bay, or buckskin, or palomino, or chestnut--you would need to test him for black, agouti and cream and then you would know what colors his foals could come out.

If the sire is homozygous tobiano then the foal has a copy of tobiano.

If the foal has tested homozgyous Sb1 (which is the sabino gene that there is a public test available for) then he received one copy of Sb1 from his sire and one from his dam.

CSF Kenny Rogers is LTD breeding - in addition to being Frame the LTD line is one of the best documented Sb1 sabino lines in miniatures. The pattern that the LTD line stamps so consistantly is the result of Frame combined with Sb1.

Under the white this colt is a base color as white is NOT a base color but is a pattern hiding the base color. In order to determine his base color you will likely need to do several different tests. What tests depends on what colors his parents are.

Homozygous Sb1 does not mean they'll produce pinto - just that they will produce white markings (leg white or face white). He will produce 50% tobianos since he inherited one of his sire's tobiano genes. You can expect higher than 50% pinto production from him because of the combination of different pinto genes he has but he will not be a 100% color producer.

thanks all for your input!! It helped shed some light- Wow- color genetics are so confusing