Color people and those that remember the Dell Tera horses

""I agree with a lot of posts here concerning adding more Shetland lines to mini lines, but of course if you didn't know it or DON'T believe it ALL of your miniatures come from Shetland lines!!! "

Not 100% true - there are no appaloosa Shetlands."

I took the above quote from another topic. I then looked at Orion's background and now I'd like to ask does anyone know where the appy came from? According to registration his sire was Dell Teras Buttons a 30 1/2" brown ( can find pictures of him) while his dam was Dell Teras Jane a 33" "grey" (which I suspect was probably a silver mislabeled but no pictures).

How did those two make a pintaloosa blue roan? Color people --- speak up!

Is he a true blue roan? Or is it the appaloosa genetics causing the blue roan appearance, or since he's pintalousa, is there sabino in there causing the roaning?

I honestly don't know, just throwing out more to ponder.

He was not true roan-black pintaloosa. There is an other thread on this very subject and it is believed that Dell Tera's Buttons is actually not Orion's sire. His breeder had another stallion that was appaloosa and if I remember correctly, someone on this forum had talked to his breeder and he had said he thought the appaloosa stallion was the sire. I can't remember the appaloosa stallion's name, but I'm sure someone else will know as I had heard of him before I had read that old thread.

Bumping up as inquiring minds want to know! See my stallion is about 5 gen. from Orion and he is Silver -black dapple which hides the Appy pretty well. But it's there as he throws Appy characteristics (one foal with black spots on rump and one going snowflake)

ohmt said:

He was not true roan-black pintaloosa. There is an other thread on this very subject and it is believed that Dell Tera's Buttons is actually not Orion's sire. His breeder had another stallion that was appaloosa and if I remember correctly, someone on this forum had talked to his breeder and he had said he thought the appaloosa stallion was the sire. I can't remember the appaloosa stallion's name, but I'm sure someone else will know as I had heard of him before I had read that old thread.

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If that is not his sire, then Y has it not be fixed long ago? Thats not right that the wrong name is on the papers if it was known to be untrue and will give so many others out there with horses with that name in it a different view of their horses pedigree.

 

In my opinion and it should be, that it is faulse information and should be fixed!

MindyLee, Orion Light Vant Huttenest was registered in AMHA before DNA testing became a requirement for breeding horses. As it is in the AMHA studbooks, his sire is listed as unknown and his dam, Dell Teras Jane was not DNA'd. While Orion himself is DNA'd and Bloodtyped, since his sire is listed as unknown and his dam is not DNA'd, there isn't anyway to prove who his sire actually is or isn't. Dell Teras Buttons isn't DNA'd either.

If that is not his sire, then Y has it not be fixed long ago? Thats not right that the wrong name is on the papers if it was known to be untrue and will give so many others out there with horses with that name in it a different view of their horses pedigree.
In my opinion and it should be, that it is faulse information and should be fixed!

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Mindy if you go back in a lot of old pedigrees there are mistakes. Years ago it was not uncommon for farms to put mares out with a couple stallions and then "guess" which one was the sire by looking at the foal. No its not right but it did happen. No way to go fix it now especially on old pedigrees as you cannot pull DNA.

I rarely go by colors listed on old pedigrees because they are wrong so many times. There are so many registered as palomino that are actually silver bay. Greys listed as blue roans. Silver dapples listed as grey etc etc.

Becky & Kaykay, thanks for a diff look at how it was back then. It makes more sense now.

Interesting

MindyLee said:

If that is not his sire, then Y has it not be fixed long ago? Thats not right that the wrong name is on the papers if it was known to be untrue and will give so many others out there with horses with that name in it a different view of their horses pedigree.

 

In my opinion and it should be, that it is faulse information and should be fixed!

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There were a lot of farms who would decide AFTER the foal was born who the sire was. If it was a good one, it was by their "Good" stallion. If it wasn't, it was by one of the others. There is a lot of mystery in previous pedigrees.

Orion was a black base, varnish, Pintaloosa, not Blue Roan.

I always understood that he was by an "unknown" Appy stallion, I do not think there is any Silver in Orion's pedigree.

rabbitsfizz said:

Orion was a black base, varnish, Pintaloosa, not Blue Roan.

I always understood that he was by an "unknown" Appy stallion, I do not think there is any Silver in Orion's pedigree.

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As someone else said it would be nice if the colors were listed correctly. As for my stallion the silver definitely came in on his grandsire's side when Orion's son (Brewer's Orion Mystic) was bred with GG Black Gold as her sire is listed black silver.

However, I still wonder at the "color" of Orion's dam since she is listed as "grey". She could have been silver instead since her sire is listed as black and her dam as sorrel pinto. I don't think "grey" can be made without another grey horse.

I had always heard the rumor that possibly Dell Teras Jim Dandy may have actually been Orion's sire, but have never looked at details as to dates of foaling etc... to see if that was possible. Buttons was a little black or brown stallion with no Appy characteristics what so ever- he could not have passed on any Appy to Orion if he was the father.

No there are no Appaloosa in Shetland lines, however Shetlands were used to down size Appaloosas and POAs to make Appaloosa Minis and I can trace a couple of mine back to Shetland lines through a common mare in their pedigrees. So the Appy Minis DO have Shetland breeding.

HGFarm said:

I had always heard the rumor that possibly Dell Teras Jim Dandy may have actually been Orion's sire, but have never looked at details as to dates of foaling etc... to see if that was possible. Buttons was a little black or brown stallion with no Appy characteristics what so ever- he could not have passed on any Appy to Orion if he was the father.

No there are no Appaloosa in Shetland lines, however Shetlands were used to down size Appaloosas and POAs to make Appaloosa Minis and I can trace a couple of mine back to Shetland lines through a common mare in their pedigrees. So the Appy Minis DO have Shetland breeding.

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I would place my bet on Jim Dandy as well.

I also don't think its true that ALL miniatures came from Shetlands, because of the fact that we have miniatures who are Falabella bred and originated. I have not read much on Falabella's to be honest, so I don't know how they were bred to be. Although, I think I remember reading that they were from a really small TB stallion and pony mares?

Only one of my horses can be traced as far back as Shetlands. Then as far back as the 1860's. The rest of my herd's pedigrees stop around 1969 with only Miniatures. However, for some reason ONE horse is listed as Shetland, yet the offspring of a Part-Arab sire, and an Arab mare. Then I get a Shire x Shetland pony breeding.....

If anybody is curious and has ASPC membership, I would very obliged if somebody would look up this horse: ASPC# 000135

I've always wondered about him!

In the printed AMHR stud book from 1975 (before AMHA)

It says he had a full sister.

White Babe Van't Huttenest

g.wh.M.,GWMT 6/2/72

sire: Dell Teras Buttons

Dam: Dell Teras Mocking Bird (dk.g.M, WMT 1969)

Orion Light Van't Huttenest

g.wh.S.,GMT 5/9/74

sire: Dell Teras Buttons

Dam: Dell Teras Mocking Bird (dk.g.M, WMT 1969)

I'm NOT saying this is IT, just saying what's in the printed R studbook

I also don't think its true that ALL miniatures came from Shetlands, because of the fact that we have miniatures who are Falabella bred and originated. I have not read much on Falabella's to be honest, so I don't know how they were bred to be. Although, I think I remember reading that they were from a really small TB stallion and pony mares?

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I've been told, right or wrong, that Senor Falabella bought some shetlands and took them to South America to use in his breeding program. If that is the case--and I have no idea if it's true because I have no real interest in the Falabellas and have never bothered to do any research--then it's entirely possible that some Falabellas do have Shetland breeding behind them.

Only one of my horses can be traced as far back as Shetlands. Then as far back as the 1860's. The rest of my herd's pedigrees stop around 1969 with only Miniatures. However, for some reason ONE horse is listed as Shetland, yet the offspring of a Part-Arab sire, and an Arab mare. Then I get a Shire x Shetland pony breeding.....

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Where do you find anything saying that some of your Minis' ancestors were a result of Arab or Shire/Shetland breeding?