Turnout Hits and Misses

Ok, for the sake of education, I'm going to lay myself out there. Try to keep all snickering to a loud roar, please.

I am in the process of putting together a PowerPoint for carriage driving Turnout for a local club. Here is some of the material that I am using.

You all have seen my blue Phaeton Cart and the outfit that I wear for Turnout (I wear something else for the other classes), but here are a few other photos of what I started out wearing before I "got it right".

Here is one of my first turnouts. I look wonderfully "generic" in my black and white, don't I? There is nothing that ties me to the vehicle. The blue screams, "I'm a blue undercarriage!"



This one is a little better, but the blues "fight". And what do you see most? The big white hat. And get a load of the messy, frizzy mane. Yuck! No wonder John Greenall pinned me 4th in this class! The crock of it is that my husband (who had been to a Greenall clinic earlier in the year) tried to tell me that John wasn't fond of white and couldn't stand messy manes! Duh!



So here is what I wear now in Turnout. The whole thing just "goes". I still am not thrilled with the hat, I think it is just a bit too big. It is not outside my shoulders, but this being somewhat of a "sporting" vehicle with the "bright" color, my hat should be more "sporting". But if I didn't have that black and blue hat, I would be back to nothing tying me to the vehicle enough. I have a bit of blue in the scarf, but that isn't enough. However, I haven't found the perfect hat yet. Mary Ruth Marks says, "You use what you have until you get what you want."

The mane is braided, so it isn't messy. (It doesn't matter how much Mane Mousse and hairspray I use, that one section of Alax's mane always flips.) I also reupholstered the seats because the "cool" tan faught with every outfit I tried to put with it. (Actually, the whole box was new, and we put the old box on a pony vehicle.) The seat now matches the stripe on the vehicle.



This is what I wear for Reinsmanship. The reason I wear something different is that in Reinsmanship you want to draw attention to yourself, because that is what is being judged. In Pleasure, you want to disappear more so that the horse is the focus. I have thought about wearing this for Turnout (this is my favorite Turnout), BUT...while the hat is really cute, it is felt. It isn't logical to wear felt in the summer, so the judge could feasibly nail me on that with everything else being equal. My black and blue above is satin-covered straw. (Of course, it isn't logical to wear long sleeves all buttoned up, but the tradition is based in Europe, where it is much more mild than here.) This photo was taken during Cross Country, but if it was a ring class, I again would braid Al's mane, and make Kyle wear a velvet helmet cover (the things you can't get kids to do in the heat... ) I don't wear my monogrammed apron with the above outfit, because I wore the dark gray apron with the black coat this year, and I looked like one big blob of black from a distance.



Stay tuned, Meadowbrook is next.

Myrna

So, we built this Meadowbrook for a sorrel pinto mare. The color looked great on her. But along comes Alax, and I want to show him instead. Remember the "use what you have until you get what you want'? That is the case here. I knew that I wanted the blue Phaeton Cart, but we didn't have it built yet, and I had to see if Alax was going to show anyway.

This was his first show in 2007. While I like the coat, I'm not fond of it with this cart. The stain has more orange and the coat is burgundy. This coat would look fine with a darker stained vehicle that probably has more browns than red or orange. And what is with that big white seat! Honest, in the store it looked a whole lot more cream than white, but from a distance in the bright sunshine, what do you see? The big white seat. But hey, I got 5th! Al's first ADS ribbon. I was happy we placed.



So then I decided to wear a vest for Reinsmanship and obstacles. The nice thing about the vest is that it divides my slouchy shoulder blades better than a coat. But what do you see here? Big white seat and burgundy arms. What was I thinking! And that hat is OK, but not my favorite. It's one of my "old standbys".



So last year, we went to a show that had a deeper sand arena, and I wanted to use a lighter vehicle than my Phaeton Cart. So out comes the Meadowbrook. This turnout is MUCH better. We redid the seat in a darker tan that doesn't scream anymore, and I just added a little color in my scarf and hat band. Now that I know more, I think it is a mistake to add too much color to a stained vehicle turnout, because the driver with all the color draws attention to themselves instead of "blending". I also like the "dark-light-dark" look with the hat and apron being offset by the coat.

Look at the pinstriping in the first photo with the cream seats compared to the tan seats. I didn't redo the striping, but it looks more muted with the tan.



So this was my Meadowbrook turnout this year for a muddy (squishy) show. I was thoroughly sick of wearing my little black and cream hats above, so I got this one. It looks great OTHER THAN it flipped up in any little breeze (like a strong trot). I still like the hat, but I need to figure out how to stiffen it a little bit. The flipping was entirely annoying and distracting. That is why my head is tipped down with my chin tucked, and I look like I am slouching (which I probably am), because I was trying to get my hat to flip back down. That was the only class I wore that hat for the whole year. I should have practiced with the hat ahead of time. I also have a clear bra strap holding my big hats on, because the first time I drove with my big black and blue one, it just about lifted off my head! You don't look so cool driving around the ring with one hand on the reins and whip and the other holding your hat on! I have great photos of me lifting my chin in the air trying to see below my big hat which is crammed on my head. Classy...not!



Myrna

Here is one other cart. I showed Dolly in 2006 before Alax was ready. While I like the cart size and stain which we picked out and made just for her, here is that big white seat again! (I got a good deal on the fabric...)

This is actually a student of mine showing the mare. I like the lighter coat and the burgundy shirt with Dolly, and even the seat isn't so bad because of her flaxen mane, but get a load of the "duck tails". The apron doesn't wrap all the way around, and so the coat sticks out and screams. Jenny could have also used a velvet helmet cover.



And here is my big bright idea for a turnout with Dolly at the next show. How often do you hear, "The apron should match the seat." This is totally taken out of context, but way back in 2006, I thought it might help. What happened instead? I look like a giant blob from the waist down! See how Jenny above has some definition to herself and I don't? I don't wear the same color apron as the seat anymore for just that reason. The "rule" is that the apron should "go" with the vehicle, not necessarily "match" it. It is an appointment of the vehicle, not your attire. It's like if you kept a blanket in your car for emergencies, but wanted one that "went with" the car. You don't need one that is the exact same color as the seats. (Anyone need a big white seat for their cart? I have two for the taking! Oh...I didn't think so.



So this was the last show we took Dolly to in '06. I had gotten the photos back from the previous shows and decided that the big white seat and my cream apron had to go. I used my old standby, first attempt at upholstery, black vinyl seat instead. I used the same coat as above, but replaced it with the forest green shirt instead. I like this, but it doesn't say "Wow". I need a lapel pin and some tailoring for the coat. Dolly's mane is messy, and those straps from my helmet need to be taken up some way so they are not flopping around. My new apron of a wool blend with the monogram and the tan trim in the first post has better shape than this gabardine one. (But I used what I had until I got what I wanted.)

Look at my posture in both photos. In this cart, I always have bad posture for two reasons. #1 - I don't have a seat back. I always feel like I am going to fall out the back (it didn't help that at the time, the mare was prone to rearing), and #2 - with only one half of a leaf spring, the suspension isn't great. If I sit up, the cart vibration goes up my spine. Springs are goooood.



OK, so there I put myself out there for critique. Feel free to add your comments. Hopefully, this made sense. (If my husband knew how much time I spent on this, he would be upset....)

Myrna

RhineStone said:

This one is a little better, but the blues "fight". And what do you see most? The big white hat. And get a load of the messy, frizzy mane. Yuck! No wonder John Greenall pinned me 4th in this class! The crock of it is that my husband (who had been to a Greenall clinic earlier in the year) tried to tell me that John wasn't fond of white and couldn't stand messy manes! Duh!

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In this photo, I don't know if it is because I am getting older or an Artist or a combo of both.... but I don't really see the white hat. To me... the blue of the cart is standing out the most.

I love all your photos BTW.

Wonderful thread Myrna! It is amazing how the first to the more recent pictures show the difference in the turnouts. Chris

Thanks for this Myrna! It is interesting to see the progression. I have seen hits and misses in my own show ring turnout, but not until I get the pictures back. Sometimes, when putting the outfit together, it sounds like a good idea or looks good closeup, but at a distance or in the pictures, I see it just doesn't work.

Even though the turnout judges in your type of shows are much more picky than at a breed show, I want to perfect my turnout to create a more beautiful picture. It can't hurt (and probably helps more often than we realize).

Shari said:

In this photo, I don't know if it is because I am getting older or an Artist or a combo of both.... but I don't really see the white hat. To me... the blue of the cart is standing out the most.

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I would agree in this photo, but in real life the navy blue is more obvious (not so dark). Both the hat and the coat are wrong with the cart. The hat might work with a horse with more white.

Myrna

I don't drive at that level, just drive for fun, so I have no idea what is correct, however I think the turnouts are wonderful! My question is about the manes. What is the best way to keep a mane if you really just want a neat look for driving. My mini's mane is long, at least 3/4 of the way down his neck and it is thick. Keep up the infomation on what is right and what's not. Thanks! Debbie

Minxiesmom said:

I have seen hits and misses in my own show ring turnout, but not until I get the pictures back. Sometimes, when putting the outfit together, it sounds like a good idea or looks good closeup, but at a distance or in the pictures, I see it just doesn't work.

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That is so true. I have taken all sorts of photos of the clothing laying over the cart, which is a start, but then like you say, I see the photos from the show and realize it doesn't work. It really is a good idea to do a "dress rehearsal".

Here is a photo of my first dress rehearsal with my Phaeton Cart. I thought that blue coat was going to be awesome, until I looked at the photos. It was just SO MUCH blue! And the coat didn't fit well, it was so bunchy. So that is when I went strickly the other way and got the overly toned down navy. Sometimes it just takes a while to get it all together. I'm still on the lookout for the perfect hat.

sdust said:

What is the best way to keep a mane if you really just want a neat look for driving. My mini's mane is long, at least 3/4 of the way down his neck and it is thick.

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For the mini breed show ring, you can't braid it. That is against the rules. I will defer to others as to how to get it to lay down. Obviously, I haven't been successful at that!

I use the Running or French braid on Alax, but I am highly considering wacking his mane off this year so I can do button braids. The nice thing about the French braid is that it is generally fast. The bad thing about it is that it is really easy for him to take out on his own! If he stretches his neck down to eat, out pops the braid! There are other braids, like the web, but I think that looks better on horses with a contrasting mane, vs. one that is the same as the body.

I do undercut a good share of Alax's thick mane, too.

Myrna

Thank you Myrna for being so willing to show your 'mistakes' so the rest of us can be more discerning in our own turnouts. I think the white hat in the one picture doesn't seem so noticeable because of the fence behind it in the picture. In person the viewer would be at an entirely different angle and would I expect see it more. I'm curious about the seats on your carts. You seem to be able to swap them out with relative ease. Is that the case or am I miss interpreting what you are saying. If a person were to have multiple seats and backs for an ee cart could they do you think be chosen to match the turnout/horse or would the removal and replacing be to big a job each time? Also regarding the helmet covers, could a person use a color other than black to tie the turnout and cart together or would a colored helmet be considered tacky do you think?

Lovely photos and lots of fodder for thought. Your Powerpoint viewers will certainly enjoy it (if they can overcome their envy)!

I am hoping to show Dusty this year. Perhaps I should start getting the outfit together NOW, trying it on and having someone photograph me.

Is this an appropriate post topic to ask for color suggestions?

Reignmaker Miniatures said:

I think the white hat in the one picture doesn't seem so noticeable because of the fence behind it in the picture.

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I thought the same thing when I looked at the photo again.

Reignmaker Miniatures said:

You seem to be able to swap them out with relative ease. Is that the case or am I miss interpreting what you are saying. If a person were to have multiple seats and backs for an ee cart could they do you think be chosen to match the turnout/horse or would the removal and replacing be to big a job each time?

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Some of our carts have just cushions that are strapped onto the board. Those are easy to remove. My Phaeton Cart has a cushion, but the drop (fall) and the seat backs are on their hard and fast and require a needlenose pliers to remove. There are tricks to seat cushions, but yes it could be done. There are exceptions, but Greenall says that there are two "colors" of seats, gray and tan. The nice thing about sticking with those is that they will pretty much go with anything and any horse.

Reignmaker Miniatures said:

Also regarding the helmet covers, could a person use a color other than black to tie the turnout and cart together or would a colored helmet be considered tacky do you think?

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Oh, yes! If there is not really much black in the turnout, by all means should you use a color that "goes"!

Myrna

Marsha Cassada said:

Perhaps I should start getting the outfit together NOW, trying it on and having someone photograph me. Is this an appropriate post topic to ask for color suggestions?

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Oh. yes, winter is the PERFECT time to get an outfit together. And Easter is THE BEST time to look for hats! By all means ask for suggestions!

Myrna

Oh, what fun looking at all those lovely outfits! I think the larger black and blue hat is stunning! Several years ago, when I didn't have minis or drivers, at an 1850's shin-dig in McGeiger, Iowa, I purchased a lined straw hat, with the brim standing up so the light blue lining shows.. Perhaps I will be able to wear it in a driving class someday! Thanks for the enjoyable information!

Thanks for putting that together Myrna, I know how much work that must have been. All I can say is there's a reason I've never been good at my own turnout! The horse, yes. I'll nitpick and obsess about his cart and harness until the cows come home. But me? Trying to get me to go shopping for myself is like trying to give a cat a bath. I hate it, I'm not good at it, and I'm hard to fit to boot. Add to that a distinct lack of cash (after all that harness, of course) and any ability to sew and you get some regrettable outfits.

RhineStone said:

Look at my posture in both photos. In this cart, I always have bad posture for two reasons. #1 - I don't have a seat back. I always feel like I am going to fall out the back (it didn't help that at the time, the mare was prone to rearing), and #2 - with only one half of a leaf spring, the suspension isn't great. If I sit up, the cart vibration goes up my spine. Springs are goooood.

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This is where I've taken my riding experience and put it to good use. Over rough ground there is a definite need to lean forward a bit in order to avoid being thrown out the back by a sudden jolt lifting your feet off the floorboards but I try to remember to act as if I'm in 2-point position rather than rounding my shoulders forward. Make sure there's some play/angle to your knees and hips, sit a little further forward on the seat if necessary as long as it doesn't effect the balance, and let your hips and lower back flex to absorb the shocks. I also experiment with holding different amounts of tension in my thighs and buttocks to absorb the shock and that helps sometimes. Taking it right on the seat bones is murder!

If I really wanted to continue to use a cart with little suspension like that I think I'd be tempted to put a different kind of foam in the seat cushion, something thick enough to keep the seat board from hitting your rump bones but squishy enough to not bounce you up and off it either. Memory foam, maybe?

sdust said:

My question is about the manes. What is the best way to keep a mane if you really just want a neat look for driving. My mini's mane is long, at least 3/4 of the way down his neck and it is thick. Keep up the infomation on what is right and what's not. Thanks! Debbie

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RhineStone said:

For the mini breed show ring, you can't braid it. That is against the rules. I will defer to others as to how to get it to lay down. Obviously, I haven't been successful at that!

...I do undercut a good share of Alax's thick mane, too.

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Myrna is right- it depends on what type of driving you'll be doing. For the breed show ring about all you can do is undercut it, thin it, wash it and put a sleezy on it the night before. That usually works pretty well, especially if you gel it a bit and don't brush it out before your class. The first time your horse shakes his head it's all over though! Leave the sleezy on until the last possible minute except for making sure there's no weird bed-head issues going on under there.

For recreational driving I will thin the mane enough to be manageable and then slap it up in a quick running braid for the workout so I can clearly see the horse's neck and the lines aren't getting caught up in it.

For combined driving I personally do a nice running braid for dressage and cones but I know many people who pull the mane in order to do button braids or even roach it. I show AMHR as well so I can't really do that, but it looks nice if your horse has the neck to carry it off. If I want a softer, dressier look I'll do the macrame or Continental "net" braid Myrna mentioned. That one looks great for cones or marathon with colored electrical tape around each join! The angle you do a running braid at can also be individualized to enhance your horse. I'll often run Kody's a little lower in the rear like a Baroque horse's to enhance the appearance of an arch to his neck rather than running it evenly along the crest the whole length. Every horse is different. I'm going to have to experiment with Turbo to see what works for him! He's got a very long, thin neck but also a long, thin mane and it looks scrawny and funny when I braid it. I'll experiment this year with different running braids on him but barring the button braids which I can't do while he's showing AMHR, I'll probably end up doing a Continental. It should look nice with his dark chocolate mane on his silvery body, especially when I've dyed the sunbleaching away.

Leia

hobbyhorse23 said:

I hate it, I'm not good at it, and I'm hard to fit to boot. Add to that a distinct lack of cash (after all that harness, of course) and any ability to sew and you get some regrettable outfits.

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I am the queen of frugal when it comes to clothing for myself. I don't even bother looking at the full-price racks. I go straight to the back clearance racks! I have also been known to get a good share of my show clothes at second-hand stores, Goodwill, et al. I can't see paying full price for something that I'm going to "roll around in the dirt with". That has been half of my problem because I have been known to look at something and say, "That will work" instead of finding something that says, "Perfect!".

BUT....my friend took me to this awesome designer consignment store in Madison. The have REALLY nice stuff for not a lot of money. Granted, it's not a couple of bucks like a Goodwill, but the black coat that I wear for Turnout is an Ann Taylor that fits AWESOME and I got it for $25! (They also have racks of St. John that I can't afford used, nor would I want to pay that anyway.... ) My black dress pants I have had for years, the blue scarf was a couple bucks at St. Vincent's, the black and blue hat was from Macy's for about $35 I think (and so was the light blue one for about the same $$), and the apron I made from wool blend fabric that was on sale for like $5/yd. A friend of mine did the monogram and I gave her $25 and a bottle of our homemade maple syrup. My gray coat I wear for Reinsmanship I got on the sale rack at Kohl's Department Store for about $25, and the khaki one is a Land's End I got at Goodwill for probably less than $15 (I've had that a LONG time.) My most expensive article was my Ariat paddock boots for around $100 I think (I've had them for a few years.) Needless to say, I don't spend a lot on my clothes.

Myrna

Thanks for doing this Myrna, it is really helpful and interesting! It amazes me how just a small detail can make or break a turnout. This thread has got me thinking about whether my outfits I put together last year will work with my new cart. If it ever arrives I will have a fun winter project

I'm starting to shop; have to start early because I hate to shop. Looked through my closet, thinking about Dusty's color, cart and upholstery. I think I actually have a suit that will work. A sort of brown tweed seems right for him with black underneath. The hat will be hard; I'll hit the mall around Easter and see what the options are. I was thinking even a shade of peach might look well with him. That is a good color for me also, and I might even find a hat in that shade!

Our small thrift store is pretty hopeless, I'm afraid. And what is with all these size 4 folks?! The nicest clothes are the tiniest.

Marsha Cassada said:

I think I actually have a suit that will work. A sort of brown tweed seems right for him with black underneath. The hat will be hard; I'll hit the mall around Easter and see what the options are. I was thinking even a shade of peach might look well with him. That is a good color for me also, and I might even find a hat in that shade!

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Hint: try to get a hat that coordinates with your clothes. You don't want one that is its only color, like my white hat that is practically the only white on the turnout. It stuck out like a sore thumb. If your coat has shades of peach, then that would be good, but if your hat would be the only peach on your turnout, then you might want to look for a coat that has peach in it as well. Or the hatband and trim should match your coat, etc.

The reason that you don't want a "big white hat" and the like is that you are showing the horse. If all the judge sees is your hat (or coat, or scarf, or apron, etc.), you are defeating the purpose of your clothes. They should definitely make a whole pretty picture. That is why my black and blue hat isn't just the right one yet. How many people here have said, "I love your hat," when I need them to say, "I love your turnout". My black and blue hat is "overpowering" the rest of the turnout a bit. For Reinsmanship, you can get away with wearing clothes that attract the judge's eye to you.

For breed shows, I'm not sure I would know what to do. The challenge there is that everybody is so much trying to fit into a certain "mold" that you have to dress differently to be "picked out of the crowd". All the carts are pretty much the same style, the harnesses are too, and so if you have an absolutely brillant mover, that is what the judge sees, hence why they end up at the top. But then whatever that driver is doing, everyone emulates because "that must be what it takes to win". If you have an average mover, the driver needs to wear something that "sticks out" so that the judge sees them. However, that doesn't necessarily do the horse any good, because the judge is looking at the driver. Yes, the judge can use the driver's description to remember a horse he liked, i.e. "lady in the red suit".

In a carriage show, a lot of the vehicle styles can be very different, so it isn't as hard to be "picked out of the crowd". You have options for styles of harnesses and carts, and attire to go with them. And you can turnout yourself with accessories to complement your turnout, i.e. string gloves, baskets, spares kit, etc. I would find it hard to go back to being the same as everyone else.

Myrna