2008 AMHR Nationals Results

I just wanted to say that the review committee met last night, and I heard confirmation today that the results for Nationals stand AS JUDGED. I am sure that is a great relief to those who were caught in the confusion. I personally know one of the individuals involved, and I KNEW the horses in question had been qualified as required by the rules. I still don't know how it happened that there was such confusion over that.

Anyway, it is now official.

Wait - Confused ...

The results are as they were placed at nationals the first time......or they stand as the "new" results?

Sorry it was just worded funny..i think i know what you mean, just need to confirm...thank you!

So all the horses that were accused of being not qualified, and in one case the TRAINER said it was not qualified are just going to be allowed to keep their placings.

Sorry - too much smoke around to not have a fire somewhere.

What's going happen this year to prevent this fiasco from happening again? Still think politics are playing a HUGE role.

What about one of the judges being reprimanded for favoritism?

So, did Jill and Erica's Destiny get his Grand or not? I'm confused.

I am assuming you got word from the Board meeting going on that the original placings will stand? So everyone who was told they moved up a place now did not?

WOW if the BOD was wrong in the first place and these horses did qualify correctly- shameful that peoples integrity was questioned.

If they were right and it is sliding well guess that is a bit shameful as well

Well i've not really kept my honest feelings on this a secret, but i don't feel it was right to give the placings...take them...then give them back, i think things should have just been left as they were until something was set in stone as now journals have been published & ext. Just wish things had been checked out before Nationals, that way *IF* there was anything in question that would have been worked out prior to nationals with plenty of time. Some good may come out of this yet.

Sometimes a lot of people scream awful loud when they "know" things, causing others to react to soon, to calm the storm.

This meeting where some were allowed to show solid proof of qualification, should have taken place, before the placings were changed, not after.

Now we could have a hurricane!

I am not sure where it came from that a trainer admitted that a horse wasn't qualified, all of the people that I know that were caught up in it the horses had qualified. The results that were judged at the National Show are now "official" as I understand it, not the ones that happened after. I also think it was a bit hasty to change the results, but I DO think the result of this will be better screening, etc. prior to the show itself. There are a lot of horses, a lot of results to screen for qualifications, etc. I don't believe there was a lot of "underhanded dealing." I personally saw the horses that I am familiar with at the qualifying shows and I really don't know what happened to make those attendances "disappear."

Jill can speak for her own results, I don't know anything about her situation. Whether her horse was Grand or Reserve Grand, that is one heck of an accomplishment, and certainly a fabulous first year driving accomplishment for Destiny!

[SIZE=14pt]I have been ask to say at this time this is NOT THE OFFICIAL results of the hearing committee , Tomorrow they will present their recommendations to the entire board for approval . When a final decision is made those INVOLVED will be notified by the Office.[/SIZE]

ClickMini said:

I just wanted to say that the review committee met last night, and I heard confirmation today that the results for Nationals stand AS JUDGED. I am sure that is a great relief to those who were caught in the confusion. I personally know one of the individuals involved, and I KNEW the horses in question had been qualified as required by the rules. I still don't know how it happened that there was such confusion over that.

Click to expand...

[SIZE=12pt]No, Amy and everyone else, it's not a great relief to me, and here is why:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

To qualify for Nationals, a horse supposedy, if you bother to follow the rules, has to show at at least two shows and under four judges. The horse who pinned above Destiny at the Nationals went to only one show (in April), and was shown and handed there by its trainer who later showed it at Nationals with only one 2008 show under its belt. Destiny went to two shows under at least four judges and was really qualified to show and win at the Nationals.

I am someone involved and I'm not sure what is more upsetting:

1. Finding out via emails and message board, vs. the Registry, that unqualified horses may keep their wins; or
2. The fact that we wasted money and time because of playing by / respecting the rules and having Destiny fully qualified -- only to find it probably wasn't worth the money, effort and time; or
3. The sense that AMHR has been very disorganized in handling something so important to many people. What is more important than keeping the placements at Nationals correct AND legitimate?

I feel VERY let down by AMHR if the unqualified horses are allowed to keep their wins. I just cannot comprehend why that is fair or would be allowed.

Before finding out about the unqualified horses placing [SIZE=8pt](and we all know it wasn't just in Destiny's class that this happened)[/SIZE], I was beyond proud about his Reserve National Grand Champion win, then hearing he was National Grand Champion, I was even prouder.

Now I'm just disgusted and disappointed, but holding out a shred of hope AMHR will put some stock in its own rule book and show deserved favor to those who honored the registry's rules. To do otherwise is honestly a slap in the face to those who do comply with the rules.

All I know is that in this day of computers and software, there ought to be a way to make sure that every horse entered at Nationals is qualified. It shouldn't take rocket science. To me there is no excuse for the 2008 mess. All involved have been through the ringer.

Hopefully there will not be any questions this year!!!

Barbie

I sure hope there is an official statement made when the meeting is over. It gets even crazier when, it makes the decision of whether or not a horse should have earned a Hall of Fame for 2008.

Jill said:

ClickMini said:

I just wanted to say that the review committee met last night, and I heard confirmation today that the results for Nationals stand AS JUDGED. I am sure that is a great relief to those who were caught in the confusion. I personally know one of the individuals involved, and I KNEW the horses in question had been qualified as required by the rules. I still don't know how it happened that there was such confusion over that.

Click to expand...

[SIZE=12pt]No, Amy and everyone else, it's not a great relief to me, and here is why:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

To qualify for Nationals, a horse supposedy, if you bother to follow the rules, has to show at at least two shows and under four judges. The horse who pinned above Destiny at the Nationals went to only one show (in April), and was shown and handed there by its trainer who later showed it at Nationals with only one 2008 show under its belt. Destiny went to two shows under at least four judges and was really qualified to show and win at the Nationals.

I am someone involved and I'm not sure what is more upsetting:

1. Finding out via emails and message board, vs. the Registry, that unqualified horses may keep their wins; or
2. The fact that we wasted money and time because of playing by / respecting the rules and having Destiny fully qualified -- only to find it probably wasn't worth the money, effort and time; or
3. The sense that AMHR has been very disorganized in handling something so important to many people. What is more important that keeping the placements at Nationals correct AND legitimate?

I feel VERY let down by AMHR if the unqualified horses are allowed to keep their wins. I just cannot comprehend why that is fair or would be allowed.

Before finding out about the unqualified horses placing [SIZE=8pt](and we all know it wasn't just in Destiny's class that this happened)[/SIZE], I was beyond proud about his Reserve National Grand Champion win, then hearing he was National Grand Champion, I was even prouder.

Now I'm just disgusted and disappointed, but holding out a shred of hope AMHR will put some stock in its own rule book and show deserved favor to those who honored the registry's rules. To do otherwise is honestly a slap in the face to those who do comply with the rules.

Click to expand...

Jill, you are the first person I thought of when I read this post. And honestly I thought "OMG, here we go again!" I'm not likening your situation to losing a foal or some other very traumatic experience. But like you I choose to SHOW my horses and it is EXPENSIVE, TIME-CONSUMING, and sometimes EMOTIONALLY DRAINING. You've worked for years to put together the herd you have now and that includes Destiny. He is like one of your children and to have his amazing accomplishment (whatever it ends up being) tossed around, willy-nilly, back and forth, poorly managed with leaked premature information, all the rumors and whispers...well, it's just a shame. I don't know what else to say. I'm sure it takes some of the joy out of what should be an amazing occasion to cherish for years to come. I'm really sorry you're an unwilling participant in this fiasco! And fiasco is EXACTLY what it is!

If anyone can say with absolute certainty where and when someone else's horse showed--when that horse might be based 1000 miles away--well, that person is amazing. I can have a pretty good idea which horses the local owners showed, if I was at the same shows, but otherwise....I really cannot say for sure.

We can all look at the show results....but having once in the past had one of my horses replaced in the show results by someone else's horse....I have to say that the posted show results cannot always be trusted to be 100% accurate. I happened to check the show results for some reason & noticed the mistake, so contacted show management who then contacted AMHR and had the results corrected. I know, though, that not everyone does check show results and so may miss the fact that one of their horses was deleted in error from some show results page. In that case it may look like the horse wasn't shown, when in actual fact he was.

I do think AMHR handled this badly; results should have been posted and printed as judged, even while all the protesting and checking and fining and rechecking was done. That way once all was said and done, either the next Journal could print the corrected results for specific classes, or else nothing would have changed. There should not be all this flipping back and forth, with awards being returned and now perhaps returned again.

But even if a horse is listed by the wrong name on the online show results, it would still have to have the correct name and registration number according to the show managers information and entry forms, so why is it so difficult to check all of this, don't the show managers keep the records from all of the shows they do each year, even if its on a disc it would be proof positive. I just find that five months to check out if horses were shown in two shows is just ridiculous. Each person entering horses has to list their qualifing shows, just pull the entries and check the shows listed, why has that been so hard to do. Why would anyone have to send in letters to say a horse they don't own was at a show?

Jill, I am sorry your still in limbo about this, hopefully this will be resolved soon.

I have been involved with many organizations for 30 years. All had committees that made recommendations to the rest of the BOD or to the membership. In all those cases the committee as a whole made one recommendation, not two or three on the same subject, that is their purpose.

So if this committee hearing is presenting their finds to the rest of the BOD, then the committee itself, must of had a final result somewhere. If not they wouldn't be presenting it to anyone.

The AMHR may not have a final result, but the committee must.

Computers only work as good as the person inputting the information, if that person makes an error with the number or the name of a horse, how is the computer to know?

It is just so sad to see so many hurt by this, I know how you put your whole heart in to it. I feel bad for all of those people.

Jill, I certainly didn't mean to take anything away from you, or your horse. You need to understand though, that there are owners/trainers on the other side of this that have the same feelings as you. There was little "official" communication at any rate, although I was told that this latest was official and communicated directly from people in the office, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. I am not sure where you got your information about the horse that placed first in your class at Nationals. I also wonder how the information about the qualifications issues and the place changings was communicated to you to begin with. It is truly a mess. I am sorry if my posting this caused you more pain, it was certainly not my intent. A personal friend of mine is involved as well as you probably have figured out, and she also has been jerked around quite a bit. BTW, she also learned about quite a bit of this via the LB forum postings. Isn't that interesting.

I guess we'll just wait for the "official" official results of the inquiry. They did have to produce proof of qualification, so you can be assured that if it comes to that the horses in question most definitely did qualify under the existing rules.

I do hope this all causes some big changes in the way horses are allowed to enter at Nationals. It is a huge investment, both personal and financial, to get a horse to the big show, and in a case like this there really are no winners. No one walks away unscathed.

Again, my apologies, Jill. I had just heard a little too much sniping (not by you) about how people think the trainers are crooked, etc. Well I just don't feel that way, and I didn't think certain people deserved to be dragged through the mud. And it wasn't just the trainers by the way, it was the owners, amateur and youth exhibitors associated with the animals.

[SIZE=24pt]If the horses were not properly qualified their placings SHOULD be stripped period.[/SIZE]

I have a lot more to say of this matter but won't

Sorry Jill this happened to you and many others.

~Jessica

I agree with Marylou. I was under the opinion that this was official word from AMHR. I think we need to just wait for OFFICIAL results. Then those directly involved should be able to be given proof that those who were accused have been absolved.

I do not know much about this situation but why did AMHR or the BOD allow this to leak out in the first place. It seems it has tarnished reputations and left hard feelings before any facts were proven.