Minis under 30"

A few general questions for those who have owned, bred & loved under 30" minis; what attracted you to these tiny ones, how are they differant, special needs & joys? Thank you!

Our goal is the under 30's and we have not had a whole lot of experience yet, as it's a goal we have been working towards and it is taking some time.

At this point I see no difference and no special needs except that they are going to be older fillies before we attempt breeding and we will likely take a slower route at weaning time.

I just feel that if I am in the miniature horse business, my horses will be the smallest and most perfect example of a big horse, that's possible.

We have 16 horses and only 2 are over 30 inches. (a 31 and a 32.5) and they look like giants in the barn.

I guess when I first thought about the minis I liked the smaller ones, but with good confirmation. After all the rule books say that if two identical horses are alike in every manner the smaller one should win. I know that does not seem to be the case these days. Unfortunately because of that, if you show it is harder to do well with the little ones. We have a gelding that is under 30. He is 28" or 29". We wanted him to drive, but again with his size you run into challenges. First of all because it will be harder for them to pull, they have to really want to do it. He trot's awesome out in the pasture (oen pleasure for sure), but just have a feeling that he will not do the same behind a cart. Also in the halter ring again the taller ones are winning. About the only place you can do better is nationals (AMHR) where the devide the classes up more so the heights in the smaller classes are more even. I do not show much AMHA, so I can't comment there.

Our gelding has no special needs, besides having a lower water tank, or in our case a step up by the water tank so they can reach. He is out with minis as tall as 35 inches right now. Nobody told him he was little so it doesn't bother anything.

On the breeding end of things, I don't feel comfortable with a mare under 30 foaling. I know there are many out there that do, this is just my opinion. I just feel they are so tiny that there is too much chance of something going wrong and I don't want those extra worries. Foaling season is stressful enough.

I agree w/Renee, under 30" mares are a BIG challenge at foaling time, and frankly scare the crap out of me! Plus in order to look like a horse, they have to have a good leg to body proportion, and I think that is where most of the tiny ones lose it, I do have a couple of little boys, full brothers, a gelding and a stud colt that have awesome proportion under 30", but every time I look at them I feel grateful that they are not fillies because there just isn't enough body there.

I love the little ones, when you get that horse that is beautiful in preportion and still under 30", they are stunning, IMO that is.

This is my 28" mare that is coming 5 in 2009. LR Scouts Miss Image. She is an L&D Scout grand daughter and was Honor Roll Champion as a yearling, Reserve as a 2 year old and two time top ten at world. She also has two open supreme championships as well as in amateur and youth.

This picture is straight out of the pasture in July 2008. She has not been worked at all for two years.



One of my other mares is also coming 5 in 2009, Honeysuckle Knoll Sundances Analisa, multilple top ten Honor Roll and Supreme Champions

This picture is also right out of the pasture with no work in 3 years. I love the necks on these two mares and they come by them through breeding, not sweating.



I have another mare that is under 30" but fat right now as she is due to foal in early March, then we also have an under 30" gelding that we plan to show next year as a sr gelding 30" & under.

I have owned one under 30. He was 28 3/4. I drove him for 3 years, then he went to live with a charming family. I decided I liked the taller ones better for driving. The movement of my 34" horse in harness is nicer. Even my 32" horse does not feel the same as 34". If you are into the horses for driving, little isn't as good (in my opinion). My little one had no trouble pulling my Jerald runabout. Two adults on a smooth road were not a problem for him; he was a sturdy guy.

I kept that smaller one on a consistent dental schedule, every 6 months. When I first got him his teeth needed work--he had to be laid down to be worked on. Anyone with the very small horses needs to be extra dilligent about dental care! Better to keep on top of it, than to have to try and fix a problem later.

You're right about the size difference of a few inches! 34 next to a 28 3/4 is amazing! Since I use mine for driving, I doubt I would ever want another tiny one.

I personally love the under 30" horses....and that is my goal to breed the smallest with the best conformation. I have a 29" mare here that just about "pops" out her babies. I know that if there was a problem in birthing that there is less room to work with...but if any mare has a problem there is not a lot of room to readjust things.

I hope that this doesn't get deleted but the SmallestHorse Group promotes the 30" and under miniature and we address their "specialness" on our forum.

Thanks for all the opinions so far! I have one mare that is 29 inches and she had a 21 inch foal this year with no problem! I was shocked and rather scared. I am purchasing a 28 inch mare. Her this year's baby was only 17 inches, and she also had no problems. I do not plan to drive the little ones.

wendy

Dental work is about the only special need the smaller ones have. Their mouths are smaller and thta doesn't leave a lot of room for their teeth. You also have ot make sure feed dishes, water buckets and water toughs etc. are within reach. For mares 28-30 I don't see any problems breeding them. If they are under 28 is when I start to question it. Instead of looking at the horse's height, I look at her hips. If she has really narrow hips, I would not breed her or would be really reluctant (even if she is 34") I had a 29" mare foal all on her own this year, and it was her first foal. She was a month early and I checked her at night and she barely had a bag, so I was not "watching" her but she was in a stall. When I went out to feed in the morning there was a tiny filly. That mare's "big" sister is 30" and I drove her. She loved it and did really well. She got at least one first in each class she was in at every show. Of course she was in 32" & under classes. She caught everyone's attention, even other trainers would come comment to me on how neat she was. She was 3rd at AMHR Nationals, but when we got to AMHA Worlds with the huge classes and her being the smallest one, she got lost in the crowd.

For halter, I do know of one judge that does stick to the rule book and picks the smaller horse when equal. I know in open halter both AMHA and AMHR has a 28 & under class and 28-30 class. AMHA also now has Amateur halter class that are 30 & under and over 30-34 (mature horses) or 30-33 (jr. horses).

I've got several 30 & under for sale if your interested!

I really think this girl will stay right at 30"...she is a weanling and i know that she looks big in the first photo but she is really really tiny and i swear she has not grown even half an inch, just a feeling she will stay tiny tiny. Her full brother is 37" tall...we thought she would be in that range too, but im pretty sure she is staying small now, not complaining .

I've notice some of our forum members are doing a great job with the little ones!

Here are a few of our 30" and unders that did very well at the AMHA World this year with hubby Tommy. We LOVE and believe in the little ones!

[SIZE=14pt]CCMF Legacy's Legend[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Bay Leopard Senior Stallion...2008 AMHA WORLD CHAMPION[/SIZE]



[SIZE=14pt]Lost Spoke's Bambi Kiss aka Bamster[/SIZE] [SIZE=12pt] Chestnut Appaloosa Yearling Mare...2008 two time AMHA RESERVE WORLD CHAMPION[/SIZE]



Tiny Bamster is Catch's niece!

[SIZE=14pt]Lost Spoke's Smoki Lady aka Smoki[/SIZE] [SIZE=10pt] Black Appaloosa Yearling Mare we intend to show as a tiny 28" and under senior mare[/SIZE]



We haven't experienced any more difficulty with some of the small lines, however, we have noticed the smaller ones can take longer to mature than their larger counterparts.

Dawn

Your "28" puts your mares around 30" at the withers in most cases.

This is still very small but nowadays I will not breed a mare under 30".

They can give birth, sure.

If something goes wrong though, there is NO way at all to do anything...it is a C-section or a bullet and believe me, I speak form the most bitter experience.

The mare I lost had had two foals by bigger stallions, the foal she did not pass was tiny, but dead, and so was twisted round in the womb and, unlike a live foal, could not help in any way.

I lost the mare.

There was no room inside to do anything at all, and by the time this was ascertained, even though I had had two Vets working on her for three hours, it was too late to save her.

So, it is all fine and dandy till something goes wrong.

I truly believe that the only sensible way to breed under 30" animals is tiny stallions on bigger mares.

I have two mares right now that will never be bred.

One is 26" at rising two, she is around 241/2 - 25" measuring your way and I cannot see her ever being very big.

Luckily I have her full sister who is her replica but 31".

I also have her dam and sire, so I will have another go!!

But she will never be in foal.

One mare lost for no reason is quite enough.

Leeana said:

I really think this girl will stay right at 30"...she is a weanling and i know that she looks big in the first photo but she is really really tiny and i swear she has not grown even half an inch, just a feeling she will stay tiny tiny. Her full brother is 37" tall...we thought she would be in that range too, but im pretty sure she is staying small now, not complaining

.

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I sure like the leg on that gal....

We have a few unders this is Moniet 29" coming 5 soon bred to a Boogerman 31.5 son and hopefully having her foal in March without any problems because of size. She's huge already so far with her belly dragging near the ground some days others she hardly fits through the side door she's so round.

The others under 30" haven't given us any problems though l did find a few of them seemed to have a harder time spitting out the foal and were down much longer afterwards then the taller ones. l like them short to but it's really hard to compete unless they are in a class with only under 30's. We like the stallions to be right up near the height limit and the mares mainly 30 to 32.

What first attracted us to the smaller miniature horses? Well, first of all, if I'm going to have 'miniature' something I want the smallest/best rather than the largest one...of whatever animal.

Also, our research indicated that the really good smaller ones were more rare/more difficult to produce (good ones) and seemed to bring a higher price tag (looking at it from a business angle). This seems to have proven true in our 15+ years of breeding miniatures. It's the very good, very little ones that sell first and for way the most $. Right now we have a gorgeous hmozygous show colt that will mature around 31"-32" and not a drop of interest in him! The under 30 foals (will mature under 30) have been gone for months!

As for foaling.....our over 30 mares have been where we've had problems. The only under 30 we have ever had a problem with was a 28" maiden that I bought bred and found out later she was bred to at 32" 2 year old!!!!! I would NEVER do something like that! The mare is fine, but we lost the VERY BIG foal. Of course, we are very lucky here in OkC to have several outstanding equine hospitals with top of the line veterinarians. The best care is no more than 15 minutes away.

And I have to tell you, probably the botttom line for us was having some VERY well known, long time breeders tell us... "Oh they are cute, but you can't show them" "They never win". Now that was a challenge!

This is Cowboy, 25 1/2". Pictured at age 7 I believe. MANY years out of any conditioning program. Straight from the pasture with just a bath and bridlepath trim. Note he is standing in DEEP grass. You can't even see much of the lower half of his legs and he still looks pretty proportionate. He's Top Ten in 2 registries and siring MANY little foals who are National/World Champions & Top Tens.



We have bought back some of his daughters we sold and now they are producing Champions for us. We kept Oooh La La last year and this year she went PtHA World Reserve Champion at 27 1/2" showing against junior horses up to 34" that might not even be miniatures when grown!

Here is our big boy. 29 1/2" Star Skipper. World & Reserve National Champion or Top Ten in AMHA/AMHR/PtHA. Siring small foals that are World Champions etc etc. And this picture is also straight out of pasture. (you can see his sunburned forelock)



I'm not going to take up more room here trying to post a bunch of pictures, but you can see many little ones winning in the show ring on our web site. It's just down right fun! (and profitible)

As far as special care....they don't get any. Just the same care that our Arabs, Quarter horses and taller minis got when we had them.

Charlotte

Versatility Farm & Training said:

Dental work is about the only special need the smaller ones have. Their mouths are smaller and thta doesn't leave a lot of room for their teeth. You also have ot make sure feed dishes, water buckets and water toughs etc. are within reach. For mares 28-30 I don't see any problems breeding them.

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I agree with Ashley. I've found they need more frequent dental checks and every once in a while you'll have to have some special dental work. I also have my buckets pretty low in my barn - found out the hard way!

I prefer the 30" and under horse but do have several over 30" on the property, including Spirit our main stallion. I have several under 30" mares that are experienced broodmares and so far (knock on wood) have not had foaling problems. I think it's more about the birthing canal, the width of the hips, etc. than the height of the horse.

Now showing, contrary to what the rule books state, the taller the horse (more length of leg) the better it will do in the show ring. So, my solution is to not get overly stressed about it and when my horses are finally 3 years old they get to show against their peers. However, I've had pretty good luck in the ring as is so I don't mind it at all. Corona, our 27.5" stallion has won at the regional and world level against MUCH taller horses and he's done it consistently. Our 29" mare Star is only 1 grand away from her HOF in halter. I'm sure she would have gotten it had we not retired her after her 2 year old year. Poopy Butt won a top ten at about 22" as a weanling against 26" horses (or taller ). Our 27" mare Raven is our winningest mare. And this year she'll go back in the ring as a 3 year old in the 28" and under classes. She's currently undefeated in open at the local and regional level and is a reserve world champion.

Raven



We love the little ones! Can you tell?

Raven



We love the little ones! Can you tell?

WOW! Very nice 28" and under PROVEN show mare! I'm impressed!

Dawn

Hi there, Thank you for all the great advice and wonderful pictures of tiny minis! I am trying to post some pictures of my little ones, with-out alot of success. Hope it is o.k. to do it this way! First is my 29 inch mare, Fricknick's Gotta Lotta Wild Streak, and her colt , Country Roads Troubador. He may go over 30". He is 28 inches at almost 6 months. Next he is running with my 30 inch mare, Rock-a-bye Birdie. Last, but certainly not least is my new stallion, Quiet Dells Rowdy King of Ambition! His name is bigger than him. He is coming from the Singletons of Clover Fork Miniatures in West Virginia, with this sweet little 28 inch black muchkin of a mare, Ittsy-Bittsy! Ittsy-Bittsy has produced a very fine-headed, well-proportioned, tiny colt this year (17 inches at birth) & I am excited to see what she and King will throw!, Excuse the fuzzies! The newcomers are arriving at the end of April (King's going to entertain a few lovely Southern Belles before he come to the tundra of IL!) --I hope winter flies by! The Singletons are wonderful people to buy from and I feel so blessed to be acquiring these two special little horses!

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/g...swilldmommy.jpg

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/g.../TroubBirdy.jpg

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/g...ntos/king-1.jpg

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/g...s/moregypsy.jpg

Wendy

Country Roads Miniatures

Malta, Illinois

I was not going to reply to this one, as my Minis are over 30". I will have to say that the under 30" scares the crap out of me too, but for good reason.

The 28" and under class is one of the easiest classes to win, because there are so few good horses that are 28" or under. If you get one, you will have a great time showing them. Most of the little guys are not as balanced as the bigger ones. So, if you have a well balanced little one, what fun in the show ring, but not in the breeding shed. If you have a well balanced little colt, he would be worth his weight in gold.

When I first got into Minis so did my daughter. She was into the really small ones. Uner 30. She lost more foals, had more distocias, lost more mares and got disgusted and got out of the Mini's.

Then I had a friend who also had several mares under 30". She too had disoticas and lost two mares who had distocias and ruptured usterus because of the distoia. She will not breed a mare under 32" now, and almost got out of Minis because of all of her losses.

I had two mares that were under 30". One foaled a colt with her first foal. He was stuck and I had to go in there to help (she was 29") I had one heck of a time getting him out (which I did alive) and my hands were swollen for days afterword. The other mare was 28 1/2". Her first foal was also a distocia, I almost lost her at the vets. She had died but then they brought her back.

I had a conversation this past World show, with one of the Smaller horses breeders and I asked her about breeding them so small and told her what had happend to me, my daughter and my friend. She said that they breed for the smaller horse, but all of their mares are on the taller side, 30 to 32", it was their stallions that were smaller. She too would not breed tiny mares.

Now, short of the 29" mare, I will not own a mare for breeding under 30". I do not mind if the stud is small, bred to larger mares, but the smaller mare, not for me. The one I still own, she has since had two more foals, one was born dead, the other was just fine. but each time she gets ready to foal, I worry. The small ones just have too hard a time and to me, it is not worth losing them.

Riverdance said:

I was not going to reply to this one, as my Minis are over 30". I will have to say that the under 30" scares the crap out of me too, but for good reason.
The 28" and under class is one of the easiest classes to win, because there are so few good horses that are 28" or under. If you get one, you will have a great time showing them. Most of the little guys are not as balanced as the bigger ones. So, if you have a well balanced little one, what fun in the show ring, but not in the breeding shed. If you have a well balanced little colt, he would be worth his weight in gold.

When I first got into Minis so did my daughter. She was into the really small ones. Uner 30. She lost more foals, had more distocias, lost more mares and got disgusted and got out of the Mini's.

Then I had a friend who also had several mares under 30". She too had disoticas and lost two mares who had distocias and ruptured usterus because of the distoia. She will not breed a mare under 32" now, and almost got out of Minis because of all of her losses.

I had two mares that were under 30". One foaled a colt with her first foal. He was stuck and I had to go in there to help (she was 29") I had one heck of a time getting him out (which I did alive) and my hands were swollen for days afterword. The other mare was 28 1/2". Her first foal was also a distocia, I almost lost her at the vets. She had died but then they brought her back.

I had a conversation this past World show, with one of the Smaller horses breeders and I asked her about breeding them so small and told her what had happend to me, my daughter and my friend. She said that they breed for the smaller horse, but all of their mares are on the taller side, 30 to 32", it was their stallions that were smaller. She too would not breed tiny mares.

Now, short of the 29" mare, I will not own a mare for breeding under 30". I do not mind if the stud is small, bred to larger mares, but the smaller mare, not for me. The one I still own, she has since had two more foals, one was born dead, the other was just fine. but each time she gets ready to foal, I worry. The small ones just have too hard a time and to me, it is not worth losing them.

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What is distocia? Thanks, Wendy